Tarheel_D: hi, do you like hamza yusef?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what's not to like??
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of course
Tarheel_D: well, i'm new to the study of islam - but i read in one place that he was not good. so i was not sure.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: he was not good?
Tarheel_D: yes, this man told me that he (hamza) was too wanting to give in to western thought.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ...
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: did he produce any examples?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the wahabis love to make fitnah
Tarheel_D: i have his email, i'll show you.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: on Sheikh Hamza Yusuf
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: please do
Tarheel_D: dear brother may allah reward u, thank you for taking the time to email me. hamaza yousef is a coward that sucks from the tit of capitalism. he is quick to assist and defend the kafir president of the usa and the danish kufar and is hard on the muslims. zaytuna's duty is to instill passiveness into american muslims and have them work on jihad al naffs in a way that the prophet mohamid alehi salat w salam never did. may i suggest dear akhi this school http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/ .
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: suck tits of passivism???
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: la hawla wala quwata illa billah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: capitalism???
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Tarheel_D: yes, he was angry as i took it
Tarheel_D: but i wondered about this brothers islaam.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: this is a clear lie
Tarheel_D: this brother who emailed me.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and blatant
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: attack on the learned Sheikh
Tarheel_D: are you american?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: no
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i'm Malaysian
Tarheel_D: ah, and you like the sheik?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of course
Tarheel_D: this is the man's website http://www.al-buruj.com/
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog http://neosalafism.blogspot.com
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the issues that the wahabis
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: have against Sheikh Hamza is addressed on my blog
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they are nothing more than liars
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of the highest order
Tarheel_D: well i see on your website, you have sheiks to be avoided. so this man says to avoid hamza and you say to avoid these. how are people new to islam supposed to know the truth?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out the proofs provided bro
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: are you new to Islam?
Tarheel_D: in your site?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: akhi..if a person is a fake scholar..would you suggest him for the new revert?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of course not
Tarheel_D: yes, i'm new. as i have seen wahabbi or salafi seem to be very extreme.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the lies that the wahabis have on sheikh hamza
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: are nothing more than cheap attacks
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they are very extreme
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they will not accept differences
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: everything that is not in line with their beliefs and doctrine
Tarheel_D: yes, that is how it seems
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: approved by their scholars of Islam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i.e. Ibn baz and Albani
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: will be rejected without hesitation
Tarheel_D: but i thought in islam there are different schools
Tarheel_D: is hamza yusef a sufi?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: yes he is
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: he is of the Maliki school of thought
Tarheel_D: can any sunni be a sufi?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: LOL of course habibi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: a sunni should be a sufi
Tarheel_D: i thought that sunni's didn't like sufi's
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol only wahabis hate sufis
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ya habibi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sufis are part of sunnism
Tarheel_D: so they are seen as a division?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: yes
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wahabism in truth is out of ahl sunnah waljama'ah
Tarheel_D: so anyone from any madhab can practice sufism? i assumed that sufism was a madhab in itself
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: no brother
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sufism
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: or tasawwuf is a science in Islam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it is not another madhab
Tarheel_D: now it's making more sense.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: alhamdulillah
Tarheel_D: so in the room "islam answers back" are they mostly salafi?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: yes
Tarheel_D: yes, it's mostly such fighting and putting down. it's hard to learn anything
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: mhm
Tarheel_D: is this room open often?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: daily
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: for at least 12 hours
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: per day
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: or more
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: or sometimes less
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: depend
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: depends*
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: \it's usually open at this time yea
Tarheel_D: oh. i have been going to islam answers back for so long and have learned so little. i think i have wasted so much time.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah bro
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: akhi check out this website
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: www.sunnipath.com
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you can learn much here
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: even take courses
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: from traditional scholars of Islam
Tarheel_D: thank you akhi, i need to know where to go to learn true islam.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: that is the best website bro
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: if you cannot travel
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: though my suggestion to you
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: is to seek a sheikh in Islam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: do not fall into the pit of lies of the wahabis
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: approach a traditional scholar and ask humbly to become his student
Tarheel_D: unfortunately, there is not even a masjid near me at all. and i think this is the difficulty - hard to know what is true on the internet.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: habibi...trust me...though you do not know me...I swear by Allah that the website www.sunnipath.com is absolutely trustworthy
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it is run by true qualified scholars of Islam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: who's ijazat is traced back to the prophet s.a.w.
Tarheel_D: thank you akhi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they have many courses that you can undertake
Tarheel_D: yes, i'm looking now.
Tarheel_D: akhi, may i add you as a friend here on paltalk?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: of course brother
Tarheel_D: thank you. i was beginning to lose a bit of faith, allah forgive me. thinking that wahabism was the true islam - but those people continued to discourage me.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: masha'Allah ya habibi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: May Allah s.w.t. make the path easy for you
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and help us all in our journeys and search for true 'ilm
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Ameen
Tarheel_D: ameen
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Habibi...do you mind if I posted this private text on my blog?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: post*
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: or would you like it to remain private?
Tarheel_D: no, it's fine
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: jazakumullah bro
May Allah s.w.t. make the path easy for all of us.Ameen.
Thursday, June 14, 2007
Hadarah/dhikr by Sheikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller
The Public Dhikr (Hadra)
© Nuh Ha Mim Keller 1996.
A person coming to the Middle East to learn something about the tariqa is likely, at some point in his visit, to see the brethren in the hadra or “public dhikr” as it has been traditionally practiced by generations of Shadhilis in North Africa under such sheikhs as al-‘Arabi al-Darqawi, Muhammad al-Buzidi, and Ahmad al-‘Alawi before being brought to Damascus from Algeria by Muhammad ibn Yallis and Muhammad al-Hashimi at the beginning of this century.
Upon entering the mosque, one will see circles of men making dhikr (women participants are screened from view upstairs) standing and holding hands, now slightly bowing in unison, now moving up and down with their knees in unison, the rows rising and falling, breathing in unison, while certain of them alternate at pacing around their midst, conducting the tempo of the group’s motion and breathing with their arms and step. Singers near the sheikh, in solo or chorus, deliver mystical odes to the rhythm of the group; high, spiritual poetry from masters like Ibn al-Farid, Sheikh Ahmad al-‘Alawi, ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Himsi, and our own sheikh.
Though a very stirring experience, it is meticulously timed and controlled, and as with all group dhikrs, the main adab or “proper behaviour” is harmony. No one should stand out in any way, but rather all subordinate their movement, breathing, and dhikr to that of the group. The purpose is to forget one’s individuality in the collective sea of spirits making dhikr in unison. Individual motives, thoughts, and preoccupations are momentarily put aside by means of the Sacred Dance, of moving together as one, sublimating and transcending the limitary and personal through the timelessness of rhythm, conjoined with the melody of voices singing spiritual meanings.
It is an experience that joins those travelling towards Allah spiritually, socially, and emotionally. Few forget it, and visitors from the West to whom it is unfamiliar sometimes wonder if it is a bid‘a or “reprehensible innovation,” as it was not done in the time of the earliest Muslims, or whether it is unlawful (haram) or offensive (makruh); and why they see the ulama and righteous attending it in Damascus, Jerusalem, Aden, Cairo, Tripoli, Tunis, Fez, and wherever there are people of the path.
I was one of those who asked our sheikh about the relation of the hadra to the shari‘a or “Sacred Law” which is the guiding light of our tariqa. As Muslims, our submission to the law is total, and there are no thoughts or opinions after legally answering the question “Does the hadra agree with orthodox Islam?”
Because it comprises a number of various elements, such as gathering together for the remembrance of Allah (dhikr), singing, and dancing, we should reflect for a moment on some general considerations about the Islamic shari‘a before discussing each of these separately.
First, the Islamic shari‘a furnishes a comprehensive criterion for all possible human actions, whether done before or never done before. It classifies actions into five categories, the obligatory (wajib), whose performance is rewarded by Allah in the next life and whose nonperformance is punished; the recommended (mandub), whose performance is rewarded but whose nonperformance is not punished; the permissible (mubah), whose performance is not rewarded and whose nonperformance is not punished; the offensive (makruh), whose nonperformance is rewarded but whose performance is not punished; and the unlawful (haram), whose nonperformance is rewarded and whose performance is punished.
Now, Allah in His wisdom has made the vast majority of human actions permissible. He says in surat al-Baqara, “It is He who has created everything on earth for you” (Koran 2:29), which establishes the shari‘a principle that all things are mubah or permissible for us until Allah indicates to us that they are otherwise. Because of this, the fact that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not do this or that particular practice does not prove that it is offensive or unlawful, but only that it is not obligatory.
This is the reason that when shari‘a scholars speak of bid‘a, they do not merely mean an “innovation” or something that was never done before, which is the lexical sense of the word, but rather a “blameworthy innovation” or something new that no legal evidence in Sacred Law attests to the validity of, which is the shari‘a sense of the word. The latter is the bid‘a of misguidance mentioned in the hadith “The worst of matters are those that are new, and every innovation (bid‘a) is misguidance” (Sahih Muslim. 5 vols. Cairo 1376/1956. Reprint. Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1403/1983, 2.592: 867), which, although general in wording, scholars say refers specifically to new matters that entail something offensive or unlawful.
Imam Shafi‘i explains:
New matters are of two kinds: something newly begun that contravenes the Koran, sunna, the position of early Muslims, or consensus of scholars (ijma‘): this innovation is misguidance. And something newly inaugurated of the good in which there is no contravention of any of these, and is therefore something which although new (muhdatha), is not blameworthy. For when ‘Umar (Allah be well pleased with him) saw the [tarawih] prayer being performed [in a group by Muslims at the mosque] in Ramadan, he said, “What a good innovation (bid‘a) this is,” meaning something newly begun that had not been done before. And although in fact it had, this does not negate the legal considerations just advanced [n: i.e. that it furnishes an example of something that ‘Umar, who was a scholar of the Sahaba, praised as a “good innovation” despite his belief that it had not been done before, because it did not contravene the broad principles of the Koran or sunna]
(Dhahabi: Siyar a‘lam al-nubala’. 23 vols. Beirut: Mu’assassa al-Risala, 1401/1981, 10.70).
As for the practice of Muslims gathering together for group dhikr or the “invocation of Allah,” there is much evidence of its praiseworthiness in the sunna—aside from the many Koranic verses and the hadiths establishing the general merit of dhikr in every state—such as the hadith related by Bukhari:
Truly, Allah has angels going about the ways, looking for people of dhikr, and when they find a group of men invoking Allah, they call to one another, “Come to what you have been looking for!” and they circle around them with their wings up to the sky of this world.
Then their Lord asks them, though He knows better than they, “What do My servants say?” And they reply, “They say, Subhan Allah (“I glorify Allah’s absolute perfection”), Allahu Akbar (“Allah is ever greatest”), and al-Hamdu li Llah (“All praise be to Allah”), and they extoll Your glory.”
He says, “Have they seen Me?” And they answer, “No, by Allah, they have not seen You.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen Me?” And they say, “If they had seen You, they would have worshipped You even more, glorified You more, and said Subhan Allah the more.”
He asks them, “What do they ask of Me?” And one answers, “They ask You
paradise.” He says, “Have they seen it?” And they say, “No, by Allah, My Lord, they have not seen it.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen it?” And they say, “If they had seen it, they would have been more avid for it, sought it more, and been more desirous of it.”
Then He asks them, “From what do they seek refuge?” And they answer, “From hell.” He says, “Have they seen it?” And they say, “No, by Allah, they have not seen it.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen it?” And they say, “If they had seen it, they would have fled from it even more, and been more fearful of it.”
He says, “I charge all of you to bear witness that I have forgiven them.” Then one of the angels says, “So-and-so is among them, though he is not one of them but only came for something he needed.” And Allah says, “They are companions through whom no one who keeps their company shall meet perdition”
(Sahih al-Bukhari. 9 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint (9 vols. in 3). Beirut: Dar al-Jil, n.d., 8.107–8: 6408).
The last line of the hadith shows the highest approval for gatherings of dhikr in the religion of Allah. Some other accounts transmit the condemnation of Ibn Mas‘ud (Allah be well please with him) for gathering together to say Subhan Allah (perhaps out of fear of ostentation), but even if we were to grant their authenticity, the above hadith of Bukhari, containing the explicit approval of such gatherings by Allah and His messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) suffices us from needing the permission of Ibn Mas‘ud or any other human being.
Further, the explicit mention of the various forms of dhikr in the hadith suffice in reply to certain contemporary “re-formers” of Islam, who attempt to reduce “sessions of dhikr” to educational gatherings alone by quoting the words of ‘Ata' (ibn Abi Rabah, Mufti of Mecca, d. 114/732), who reportedly said,
Sessions of dhikr are the sessions of [teaching people] the lawful and unlawful, how you buy, sell, pray, fast, wed, divorce, make the pilgrimage, and the like. (Nawawi: al-Majmu‘: Sharh al-Muhadhdhab. 20 vols. Cairo n.d. Reprint. Medina: al-Maktaba al-Salafiyya, n.d., 1.21).
Perhaps ‘Ata' intended to inform people that teaching and learning shari‘a are also a form of dhikr, but in any case it is clear from the Prophet’s explicit words (Allah bless him and give him peace) in the above hadith that “sessions of dhikr” cannot be limited to teaching and learning Sacred Law alone, but primarily mean gatherings of Muslims to invoke Allah in dhikr.
As for dancing, Imam Ahmad relates from Anas (Allah be well pleased with him), with a chain of transmission all of whose narrators are those of Bukhari except Hammad ibn Salama, who is one of the narrators of Muslim, that the Ethiopians danced in front of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace); dancing and saying [in their language], “Muhammad is a righteous servant.” The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “What are they saying?” And they said, “‘Muhammad is a righteous servant’”
(Musnad al-Imam Ahmad. 6 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint. Beirut: Dar Sadir, n.d., 3.152).
Other versions of the hadith clarify that this took place in the mosque in Medina, though in any case, the fact that dancing was done before the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) establishes that it is mubah or “permissible” in the shari‘a, for if it had been otherwise, he would have been obliged to condemn it.
For this reason, Imam Nawawi says:
Dancing is not unlawful, unless it is languid, like the movements of the effeminate. And it is permissible to speak and to sing poetry, unless it satirizes someone, is obscene, or alludes to a particular woman”
(Minhaj al-talibin wa ‘umdat al-muttaqin. Cairo 1338/1920. Reprint. Cairo: Mustafa al-Babi al-Halabi, n.d., 152).
This is a legal text for the permissibility of both dancing and singing poetry from the Minhaj al-talibin, the central legal work of the entire late Shafi‘i school. Islamic scholars point out that if something which is permissible, such as singing poetry or dancing, is conjoined with something that is recommended, such as dhikr or gatherings to make dhikr, the result of this conjoining will not be offensive (makruh) or unlawful (haram).
Imam Jalal al-Din Suyuti was asked for a fatwa or formal legal opinion concerning “a group of Sufis who had gathered for a session of dhikr,” and he replied:
How can one condemn making dhikr while standing, or standing while making dhikr, when Allah Most High says, “. . . those who invoke Allah standing, sitting, and upon their sides” (Koran 3:191). And ‘A'isha (Allah be well pleased with her) said, “The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to invoke Allah at all of his times” [Sahih Muslim, 1.282: 373]. And if dancing is added to this standing, it may not be condemned, as it is of the joy of spiritual vision and ecstasy, and the hadith exists [in many sources, such as Musnad al-Imam Ahmad, 1.108, with a sound (hasan) chain of transmission] that Ja‘far ibn Abi Talib danced in front of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) when the Prophet told him, “You resemble me in looks and in character,” dancing from the happiness he felt from being thus addressed, and the Prophet did not condemn him for doing so, this being a basis for the legal acceptability of the Sufis dancing from the joys of the ecstasies they experience
(al-Hawi li al-fatawi. 2 vols. Cairo 1352/1933–34. Reprint. Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1403/1983, 2.234).
Now, Suyuti was a hadith master (hafiz, someone with over 100,000 hadiths by memory) and a recognized mujtahid Imam who authored hundreds of works in the shari‘a sciences, and his formal opinion, together with the previously cited ruling of Imam Nawawi in the Minhaj al-talibin, constitutes an authoritative legal text (nass) in the Shafi‘i school establishing that circles of dhikr which comprise the singing of spiritual poetry and dancing are neither offensive (makruh) nor unlawful (haram)—unless associated with other unlawful factors such as listening to musical instruments or the mixing of men and women—but rather are permissible.
To summarize, the hadra of our tariqa, consisting of circles of invocation of Allah (dhikr) conjoined with the singing of permissible poetry and dancing, is compatible with the Sacred Law of orthodox Islam; and when the latter elements facilitate presence of heart with Allah (as they do with most people who possess hearts), they deserve a reward from Allah by those who intend them as such. And this is the aim and importance of the hadra in the tariqa.
© Nuh Ha Mim Keller 1996.
A person coming to the Middle East to learn something about the tariqa is likely, at some point in his visit, to see the brethren in the hadra or “public dhikr” as it has been traditionally practiced by generations of Shadhilis in North Africa under such sheikhs as al-‘Arabi al-Darqawi, Muhammad al-Buzidi, and Ahmad al-‘Alawi before being brought to Damascus from Algeria by Muhammad ibn Yallis and Muhammad al-Hashimi at the beginning of this century.
Upon entering the mosque, one will see circles of men making dhikr (women participants are screened from view upstairs) standing and holding hands, now slightly bowing in unison, now moving up and down with their knees in unison, the rows rising and falling, breathing in unison, while certain of them alternate at pacing around their midst, conducting the tempo of the group’s motion and breathing with their arms and step. Singers near the sheikh, in solo or chorus, deliver mystical odes to the rhythm of the group; high, spiritual poetry from masters like Ibn al-Farid, Sheikh Ahmad al-‘Alawi, ‘Abd al-Qadir al-Himsi, and our own sheikh.
Though a very stirring experience, it is meticulously timed and controlled, and as with all group dhikrs, the main adab or “proper behaviour” is harmony. No one should stand out in any way, but rather all subordinate their movement, breathing, and dhikr to that of the group. The purpose is to forget one’s individuality in the collective sea of spirits making dhikr in unison. Individual motives, thoughts, and preoccupations are momentarily put aside by means of the Sacred Dance, of moving together as one, sublimating and transcending the limitary and personal through the timelessness of rhythm, conjoined with the melody of voices singing spiritual meanings.
It is an experience that joins those travelling towards Allah spiritually, socially, and emotionally. Few forget it, and visitors from the West to whom it is unfamiliar sometimes wonder if it is a bid‘a or “reprehensible innovation,” as it was not done in the time of the earliest Muslims, or whether it is unlawful (haram) or offensive (makruh); and why they see the ulama and righteous attending it in Damascus, Jerusalem, Aden, Cairo, Tripoli, Tunis, Fez, and wherever there are people of the path.
I was one of those who asked our sheikh about the relation of the hadra to the shari‘a or “Sacred Law” which is the guiding light of our tariqa. As Muslims, our submission to the law is total, and there are no thoughts or opinions after legally answering the question “Does the hadra agree with orthodox Islam?”
Because it comprises a number of various elements, such as gathering together for the remembrance of Allah (dhikr), singing, and dancing, we should reflect for a moment on some general considerations about the Islamic shari‘a before discussing each of these separately.
First, the Islamic shari‘a furnishes a comprehensive criterion for all possible human actions, whether done before or never done before. It classifies actions into five categories, the obligatory (wajib), whose performance is rewarded by Allah in the next life and whose nonperformance is punished; the recommended (mandub), whose performance is rewarded but whose nonperformance is not punished; the permissible (mubah), whose performance is not rewarded and whose nonperformance is not punished; the offensive (makruh), whose nonperformance is rewarded but whose performance is not punished; and the unlawful (haram), whose nonperformance is rewarded and whose performance is punished.
Now, Allah in His wisdom has made the vast majority of human actions permissible. He says in surat al-Baqara, “It is He who has created everything on earth for you” (Koran 2:29), which establishes the shari‘a principle that all things are mubah or permissible for us until Allah indicates to us that they are otherwise. Because of this, the fact that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not do this or that particular practice does not prove that it is offensive or unlawful, but only that it is not obligatory.
This is the reason that when shari‘a scholars speak of bid‘a, they do not merely mean an “innovation” or something that was never done before, which is the lexical sense of the word, but rather a “blameworthy innovation” or something new that no legal evidence in Sacred Law attests to the validity of, which is the shari‘a sense of the word. The latter is the bid‘a of misguidance mentioned in the hadith “The worst of matters are those that are new, and every innovation (bid‘a) is misguidance” (Sahih Muslim. 5 vols. Cairo 1376/1956. Reprint. Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1403/1983, 2.592: 867), which, although general in wording, scholars say refers specifically to new matters that entail something offensive or unlawful.
Imam Shafi‘i explains:
New matters are of two kinds: something newly begun that contravenes the Koran, sunna, the position of early Muslims, or consensus of scholars (ijma‘): this innovation is misguidance. And something newly inaugurated of the good in which there is no contravention of any of these, and is therefore something which although new (muhdatha), is not blameworthy. For when ‘Umar (Allah be well pleased with him) saw the [tarawih] prayer being performed [in a group by Muslims at the mosque] in Ramadan, he said, “What a good innovation (bid‘a) this is,” meaning something newly begun that had not been done before. And although in fact it had, this does not negate the legal considerations just advanced [n: i.e. that it furnishes an example of something that ‘Umar, who was a scholar of the Sahaba, praised as a “good innovation” despite his belief that it had not been done before, because it did not contravene the broad principles of the Koran or sunna]
(Dhahabi: Siyar a‘lam al-nubala’. 23 vols. Beirut: Mu’assassa al-Risala, 1401/1981, 10.70).
As for the practice of Muslims gathering together for group dhikr or the “invocation of Allah,” there is much evidence of its praiseworthiness in the sunna—aside from the many Koranic verses and the hadiths establishing the general merit of dhikr in every state—such as the hadith related by Bukhari:
Truly, Allah has angels going about the ways, looking for people of dhikr, and when they find a group of men invoking Allah, they call to one another, “Come to what you have been looking for!” and they circle around them with their wings up to the sky of this world.
Then their Lord asks them, though He knows better than they, “What do My servants say?” And they reply, “They say, Subhan Allah (“I glorify Allah’s absolute perfection”), Allahu Akbar (“Allah is ever greatest”), and al-Hamdu li Llah (“All praise be to Allah”), and they extoll Your glory.”
He says, “Have they seen Me?” And they answer, “No, by Allah, they have not seen You.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen Me?” And they say, “If they had seen You, they would have worshipped You even more, glorified You more, and said Subhan Allah the more.”
He asks them, “What do they ask of Me?” And one answers, “They ask You
paradise.” He says, “Have they seen it?” And they say, “No, by Allah, My Lord, they have not seen it.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen it?” And they say, “If they had seen it, they would have been more avid for it, sought it more, and been more desirous of it.”
Then He asks them, “From what do they seek refuge?” And they answer, “From hell.” He says, “Have they seen it?” And they say, “No, by Allah, they have not seen it.” And He says, “How would it be, had they seen it?” And they say, “If they had seen it, they would have fled from it even more, and been more fearful of it.”
He says, “I charge all of you to bear witness that I have forgiven them.” Then one of the angels says, “So-and-so is among them, though he is not one of them but only came for something he needed.” And Allah says, “They are companions through whom no one who keeps their company shall meet perdition”
(Sahih al-Bukhari. 9 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint (9 vols. in 3). Beirut: Dar al-Jil, n.d., 8.107–8: 6408).
The last line of the hadith shows the highest approval for gatherings of dhikr in the religion of Allah. Some other accounts transmit the condemnation of Ibn Mas‘ud (Allah be well please with him) for gathering together to say Subhan Allah (perhaps out of fear of ostentation), but even if we were to grant their authenticity, the above hadith of Bukhari, containing the explicit approval of such gatherings by Allah and His messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) suffices us from needing the permission of Ibn Mas‘ud or any other human being.
Further, the explicit mention of the various forms of dhikr in the hadith suffice in reply to certain contemporary “re-formers” of Islam, who attempt to reduce “sessions of dhikr” to educational gatherings alone by quoting the words of ‘Ata' (ibn Abi Rabah, Mufti of Mecca, d. 114/732), who reportedly said,
Sessions of dhikr are the sessions of [teaching people] the lawful and unlawful, how you buy, sell, pray, fast, wed, divorce, make the pilgrimage, and the like. (Nawawi: al-Majmu‘: Sharh al-Muhadhdhab. 20 vols. Cairo n.d. Reprint. Medina: al-Maktaba al-Salafiyya, n.d., 1.21).
Perhaps ‘Ata' intended to inform people that teaching and learning shari‘a are also a form of dhikr, but in any case it is clear from the Prophet’s explicit words (Allah bless him and give him peace) in the above hadith that “sessions of dhikr” cannot be limited to teaching and learning Sacred Law alone, but primarily mean gatherings of Muslims to invoke Allah in dhikr.
As for dancing, Imam Ahmad relates from Anas (Allah be well pleased with him), with a chain of transmission all of whose narrators are those of Bukhari except Hammad ibn Salama, who is one of the narrators of Muslim, that the Ethiopians danced in front of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace); dancing and saying [in their language], “Muhammad is a righteous servant.” The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “What are they saying?” And they said, “‘Muhammad is a righteous servant’”
(Musnad al-Imam Ahmad. 6 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint. Beirut: Dar Sadir, n.d., 3.152).
Other versions of the hadith clarify that this took place in the mosque in Medina, though in any case, the fact that dancing was done before the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) establishes that it is mubah or “permissible” in the shari‘a, for if it had been otherwise, he would have been obliged to condemn it.
For this reason, Imam Nawawi says:
Dancing is not unlawful, unless it is languid, like the movements of the effeminate. And it is permissible to speak and to sing poetry, unless it satirizes someone, is obscene, or alludes to a particular woman”
(Minhaj al-talibin wa ‘umdat al-muttaqin. Cairo 1338/1920. Reprint. Cairo: Mustafa al-Babi al-Halabi, n.d., 152).
This is a legal text for the permissibility of both dancing and singing poetry from the Minhaj al-talibin, the central legal work of the entire late Shafi‘i school. Islamic scholars point out that if something which is permissible, such as singing poetry or dancing, is conjoined with something that is recommended, such as dhikr or gatherings to make dhikr, the result of this conjoining will not be offensive (makruh) or unlawful (haram).
Imam Jalal al-Din Suyuti was asked for a fatwa or formal legal opinion concerning “a group of Sufis who had gathered for a session of dhikr,” and he replied:
How can one condemn making dhikr while standing, or standing while making dhikr, when Allah Most High says, “. . . those who invoke Allah standing, sitting, and upon their sides” (Koran 3:191). And ‘A'isha (Allah be well pleased with her) said, “The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to invoke Allah at all of his times” [Sahih Muslim, 1.282: 373]. And if dancing is added to this standing, it may not be condemned, as it is of the joy of spiritual vision and ecstasy, and the hadith exists [in many sources, such as Musnad al-Imam Ahmad, 1.108, with a sound (hasan) chain of transmission] that Ja‘far ibn Abi Talib danced in front of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) when the Prophet told him, “You resemble me in looks and in character,” dancing from the happiness he felt from being thus addressed, and the Prophet did not condemn him for doing so, this being a basis for the legal acceptability of the Sufis dancing from the joys of the ecstasies they experience
(al-Hawi li al-fatawi. 2 vols. Cairo 1352/1933–34. Reprint. Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1403/1983, 2.234).
Now, Suyuti was a hadith master (hafiz, someone with over 100,000 hadiths by memory) and a recognized mujtahid Imam who authored hundreds of works in the shari‘a sciences, and his formal opinion, together with the previously cited ruling of Imam Nawawi in the Minhaj al-talibin, constitutes an authoritative legal text (nass) in the Shafi‘i school establishing that circles of dhikr which comprise the singing of spiritual poetry and dancing are neither offensive (makruh) nor unlawful (haram)—unless associated with other unlawful factors such as listening to musical instruments or the mixing of men and women—but rather are permissible.
To summarize, the hadra of our tariqa, consisting of circles of invocation of Allah (dhikr) conjoined with the singing of permissible poetry and dancing, is compatible with the Sacred Law of orthodox Islam; and when the latter elements facilitate presence of heart with Allah (as they do with most people who possess hearts), they deserve a reward from Allah by those who intend them as such. And this is the aim and importance of the hadra in the tariqa.
An evening exchange with a Salafi in my room
7:15 pm, Thursday, 6/14/2007, Paltalk, Social Issues Section, Sub Section Humanities, Room Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam.
As I entered the room, brother scally_chris my comrade was on the microphone giving references from the Qur'an, the Sunnah and scholars about the issue of "Is the Prophet Alive in his grave?". I pmed(private messaged) brother Tridax who was also in the room and asked him what's going on.
Tridax: assalamualaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ws wr
Tridax: just in time as usual
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: o.O
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what's the topic exactly?
Tridax: she is ok
Tridax: an open minded salafi sister
Tridax: whether dead can pray for us
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: oic
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: who's sam?
Tridax: he seems a knowledgeable brother but not sympathetic to sufis
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: o.O
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Tridax: he was responding to some questions of shakira
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: oic
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: he rejects the Prophet s.a.w is alive in the grave?
Tridax: yes
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Tridax: i gave the verse in the quran that shaheeds are live
Tridax: he just ignores
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i will take the mic and emphasise what chris has stated
Tridax: 002.154
YUSUFALI: And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.
"This knowledgeable brother"(sam4546) as I found out later was no more than a wahabi and an avid follower of Albani.
After scally_chris had completed his piece, it was sam4546's turn on the microphone. When he came on, he started saying "okay, you produced the Qur'anic verse "And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.", Ibn Hajar mentioned in Fath Al-Bari that if the shuhada'/martyrs are alive than how can the Prophet s.a.w be dead? But you see, Ibn Hajar was just a man, man make mistakes....." This is when I first dotted him(he was dotted 3 times in all). After dotting him I went straight for the mic and sternly warned him not to belittle Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani and informed him that many scholars besides have used the verse and applied qiyas(analogy) to affirm that the Prophets are alive in their grave along with many ahadith which speak about the issue specifically. I then told him of the saheeh hadith from Rasulullah s.a.w. which says "My Ummah will not agree upon an error" and that I would rather take the explanation of the likes of Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani r.a. any second of the day than the claims of a paltalker. I said all of this with the thinking that the person rejects the fact that the Prophet s.a.w. was alive to which I was later corrected by this wahabi brother.
INTERMISSION(sam4546 goes for salah and returns about 10 minutes later)
The conversation continues.
I was on the microphone when the brother came in. I was quite ecstatic. I informed him the microphone will be handed to him after i've given him some ahadith about the Prophet's s.a.w. state in the grave.
1st Hadith :
"Al-Anbiya' Ahaya'un fi quburihim yusallun"
"The Prophets are alive in their graves worshipping their Lord"
Sharh by Sheikh GF Haddad :
A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (r) by: al-Bazzar in his Musnad, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Ibn `Adi in al-Kamil fi al-du`afa', Tammam al-Razi in al-Fawa'id, al-Bayhaqi in Hayat al-anbiya' fi quburihim, Abu Nu`aym in Akhbar Asbahan, Ibn `Asakir in Târeekh Dimashq, al-Haythami in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:211), al-Suyuti in Anbâ' al-adhkiya' bi-hayat al-anbiya' (#5), and EVEN al-Albani, in Silsilat al-ahadith al-sahihah (#621).
I then declared that this is DEFINITE proof that the Prophet s.a.w. is alive in his grave. In addition, I said that when we go to his grave, we may speak to him and he can listen(i brought this up because salafis love to make an issue out of it). I thus produced the following hadith to substantiate my claim:
2nd hadith :
Man Salla `alayya `inda qabri sami`tuhu, wa man Salla `alayya nâ'iyan bullightuhu
"Whoever invokes blessings on me at my grave, I hear him, and whoever invokes blessings on me from afar, I am informed about it."
Ibn Hajar says in FatH al-Bâri 6:379: "Abu al-Shaykh cites it with a good chain (sanad jayyid)," and Bayhaqi mentions it in Hayât al-anbiyâ with "ublightuhu" in the end.
Before I went off the microphone, I informed the person to please not come up and reject the hadiths I've provided lest he become a Quranist like how some wahabis have become.
sam4546 takes the mic. He starts accusing me of being unfair and that I'm not following the discussion and that i'm rude for just barging in the conversation like how I did. After all the compliments he said "no you see I don't reject those hadiths, they're right and true. The Prophet s.a.w is alive in his grave. But the question that arise now is how is he alive? is he alive like us?(I already informed the room about this that when we say the prophet s.a.w. is alive in the grave we're not saying that he is alive exactly as how we the living on earth are alive) He then said, we have to know that he died like any other man and thereafter presented some verses from the Qur'an speaking about Prophet Muhammad's s.a.w. humanity. In the meanwhile, on text I was asking him, okay fine you agree with the hadiths and that the Prophet s.a.w is alive in his grave, in 'alam barzakh in another state..so what exactly is the issue?(as I stated earlier I thought the issue was this person rejecting the fact that Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is alive in his grave). Without answering my questions, he just droned on until he reached the part where things became clear. He started saying you see..Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. died and those who have died cannot help you or intercede for you. He added that intercession from the Prophet s.a.w. is only valid when he was alive and in the hereafter not after he passed away and when he's dead(the ahl sunnah wal jama'ah usually do not say he's dead since the Sunnah attests that he's alive[plus we agreed that he's alive in his grave], what's going on here is common wahabi script). He then produced some Qur'anic verses to support his case without giving references or proper translations for the people in the room who do not understand arabic(i don't either in fact, well not perfectly anyway). He went on and on until he got dotted yet again.
I took the microphone and congratulated him in affirming the fact that Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is alive in his grave. I went straight to the point and said akhi...about your claim that the dead cannot pray or intercede for us here are some ahadith that may shed some light on the issue:
1st Hadith:
Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Messenger of Allah said,"Hayâti khayrun lakum tuHaddithuna wa yuHaddathu lakum fa idha muttu kânat wafâti khayran lakum tu`raDu `alayya a`mâlukum fa in ra'aytu khayran hamidtu allaha wa in ra'aytu ghayra dhâlik istaghfartu Allaha lakum"
"My life is a great good for you, you will relate about me and it will be related to you, and my death is a great good for you, your actions will be presented to me (in my grave) and if I see goodness I will praise Allah, and if see other than that I will ask forgiveness of him (for you)."
Brief Sharh from Sheikh Dr. GF Haddad :
Qadi `Iyad cites it in "al-Shifa" (1:56 of the Amman edition) and Suyuti said in his "Manahil al-safa fi takhrij ahadith al-shifa" (Beirut 1988/1408) p. 31 (#8): "Ibn Abi Usama cites it in his Musnad from the hadith of Bakr ibn `Abd Allah al-Mazni, and al-Bazzar from the hadith of Ibn Mas`ud with a sound (sahih) chain."
Sharh provided by brother superfaa:
The hadith has a sound chain as stated by al-Suyuti in Manahil al-Safa (p. 31 #8) and al-Khasa'is al-Kubra (2:281), and a sound chain according to al-Haythami (9:24 #91), and a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Tarh al-Tathrib (3:297), also Shaykh `Abd Allah al-Talidi said in his Tahdhib al-Khasa'is al-Kubra (p. 458-459 #694) that this chain is sound according to Muslim's criterion, and Shaykh Mahmud Mamduh in Raf`al-Minara (p. 156-169) discusses it at length and declares it sound. Their shaykh, al-Sayyid `Abd Allah ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari (d. 1413/1993) declared it sound in his monograph Nihaya al-Amal fi Sharh wa Tashih Hadith `Ard al-A`mal.), Al-Munawi also declared it sahîh(Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir (3:401), and so did al-Zurqani in his commentary on al-Qastallani's al-Mawahib al-Laduniyya, and Shihab al-Din al-Khafaji in Al-Khafaji, Sharh al-Shifa' (1:102), al-Mulla `Ali al-Qari adding: "Al-Harith ibn Usama narrated it in his Musnad with a sound chain." (Al-Qari, Sharh al-Shifa' (1:102), referring to the mursal hadith of Bakr al-Muzani.). Ibn Hajar also mentioned it in al-Matalib al-`Alya.(al-Matalib al-`Alya (4:22). This hadith also came to us through another, mursal way from [the Tabi`î] Bakr ibn `Abd Allah al-Muzani. The muhadith Isma`il al-Qadi also narrated it in his monograph on the invocation of blessings on the Prophet.
****THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THIS HADITH***********
2nd Hadith :
From the Sahabi Malik al-Dar:
"The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man[Bilal ibn al- Harith - according to ibn Hajar] came to the grave of the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet(alayhi salaat wa salaam) appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."
Sharh by brother superfaa:
Related by Ibn Abū Shaybah in al-Musannaf (12:31-2#12051); Bayhaqī, Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (7:47); Ibn ‘Abd-ul-Barr, al-Istī‘āb fī ma‘rifat-il-ashāb (2:464); Subkī, Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām (p.130); ‘Alā’-ud-Dīn ‘Alī, Kanz-ul-‘ummāl (8:431#23535); and Abū Ya‘lā Khalīl bin ‘Abdullāh Khalīlī Qazwīnī in Kitāb-ul-irshād fī ma‘rifat ‘ulamā’-il-hadith (1:313-4), as quoted by Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh in Raf‘-ul-minārah (p.262).
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47).
************THERE IS ALSO NO DOUBT ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THIS HADITH*********
After finishing up I said to sam4546 that these ahadith are agreed upon by all the great muhaditheen of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and their qualification is of no issue. Further more, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. has informed us that "My Ummah will not collectively agree upon an error" and according to many hadith exegesis the term ummah here refers to learned men in the religion, not just any tom, dick or harry. It is difficult to imagine that all these great scholars would have agreed upon a lie or a fabricated narration, when they are known for their great knowledge, dedication and meticulousness. I then again asked him to please not reject the narrations and become a Qur'anist before passing the mic to him.
Sam4546 takes the microphone and re-quoted the first hadith I presented. After quoting it he made the bold claim that...THIS HADITH IS MAUDHU'. IT IS WEAK!!! According to Al-Sarakhshi(or someone that sounds like that, his speech was not really that understandable to me with all due respect) and then he made the great blunder of saying AND ALSO BY SHEIKH ALBANI !! after which he was immediately dotted. I went to the microphone and exclaimed rather loudly that we shall not have THAT in this room ! How dare you cancel and debunk a hadith agreed by a bench of great muhaditheen as saheeh to be weak on the basis of what the charlatan Albani said !!! I then reminded him of the hadith I quoted "My Ummah will not agree upon an error" and asked a rhetorical question who the heck is Albani to question the authenticity of any hadith that has been declared saheeh by qualified, recognised muhaditheen of Islam!?!? I went on saying that Albani made great blunders when he attempted to analyse the hadith and you call him "Sheikhul Hadith" ??? He asked me to pass the microphone to him several times to which i sternly responded saying, I refuse to let the fans of Albani to come to the mic. You sam4546 will just repeat the same thing ! You're just gonna keep saying maudhu' maudhu' maudhu' because that's what Albani said. Your people accuse us of ahl sunnah wal jama'ah of doing taqleed and even go so far as to make takfir on those who say it's wajeeb to do taqleed on a madhab(this is qualified by the scholars of Islam to mean those without knowledge or sound knowledge in the sciences of Islam) YET you do the very same thing!!! The difference is the ahl sunnah wal jama'ah do taqleed on qualified, REAL scholars of Islam while the Wahabis follow superious personalities like Albani. When I was saying these, I was in a sort of frenzy, excited..that I have to admin. Sam4546 said that "YOU ARE 'HIGH TEMPERED'" in reference to my tone. If anyone has heard me talking about something that I'm very passionate about, they would not have mistaken it for anger. The people were asking me to let sam4546 back on the mic and brother Tridax said that "ono, give the mic to sam even if you disagree with him please" to which I responded saying " I shall not allow the lies of the fans of Albani spread in this room ". Anyone who does not agree with my method of controlling my room, may vacate whenever they please. After all, on the banner of my room..it is clearly mentioned that Lying is prohibited. To discredit a legitimate hadith on the basis of what a solitary unauthoritative individual has to say is quite a lie. Seeing that I will not placate and return the mic to him, sam4546 exited the room.
The following is a follow up in pm(private message) :
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sam..habibi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i know you think i'm oppressive
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and maybe even a coward
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i am not
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you see
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i have little patience for albani fans
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and i will not have this albani cancelling the ijma' of the ulama'
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: let me just give you one example of this sheikhul hadith of yours
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i suggest you look it up
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: in Irwa al-Ghalil, 6/251 number 1847
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: a narration from Ali r.a.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Albani had the audacity to say
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Lam aqif ala sanadih !
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: I could not find the sanad to this narration!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: if he had only read Imam Al-Hadith Al-Bayhaqi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: in Sunah Al-Bayhaqi 7/121
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: apparently...your hadith doesn't know his ulum hadith very well
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: hadith master*
sam4546: you are a joke and you know it
sam4546 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Alhamdulillahi RABBIL 'ALAMEEN. The truth prevails. Wassalam.
As I entered the room, brother scally_chris my comrade was on the microphone giving references from the Qur'an, the Sunnah and scholars about the issue of "Is the Prophet Alive in his grave?". I pmed(private messaged) brother Tridax who was also in the room and asked him what's going on.
Tridax: assalamualaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ws wr
Tridax: just in time as usual
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: o.O
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what's the topic exactly?
Tridax: she is ok
Tridax: an open minded salafi sister
Tridax: whether dead can pray for us
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: oic
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: who's sam?
Tridax: he seems a knowledgeable brother but not sympathetic to sufis
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: o.O
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Tridax: he was responding to some questions of shakira
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: oic
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: he rejects the Prophet s.a.w is alive in the grave?
Tridax: yes
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Tridax: i gave the verse in the quran that shaheeds are live
Tridax: he just ignores
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i will take the mic and emphasise what chris has stated
Tridax: 002.154
YUSUFALI: And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.
"This knowledgeable brother"(sam4546) as I found out later was no more than a wahabi and an avid follower of Albani.
After scally_chris had completed his piece, it was sam4546's turn on the microphone. When he came on, he started saying "okay, you produced the Qur'anic verse "And say not of those who are slain in the way of Allah: "They are dead." Nay, they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.", Ibn Hajar mentioned in Fath Al-Bari that if the shuhada'/martyrs are alive than how can the Prophet s.a.w be dead? But you see, Ibn Hajar was just a man, man make mistakes....." This is when I first dotted him(he was dotted 3 times in all). After dotting him I went straight for the mic and sternly warned him not to belittle Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani and informed him that many scholars besides have used the verse and applied qiyas(analogy) to affirm that the Prophets are alive in their grave along with many ahadith which speak about the issue specifically. I then told him of the saheeh hadith from Rasulullah s.a.w. which says "My Ummah will not agree upon an error" and that I would rather take the explanation of the likes of Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani r.a. any second of the day than the claims of a paltalker. I said all of this with the thinking that the person rejects the fact that the Prophet s.a.w. was alive to which I was later corrected by this wahabi brother.
INTERMISSION(sam4546 goes for salah and returns about 10 minutes later)
The conversation continues.
I was on the microphone when the brother came in. I was quite ecstatic. I informed him the microphone will be handed to him after i've given him some ahadith about the Prophet's s.a.w. state in the grave.
1st Hadith :
"Al-Anbiya' Ahaya'un fi quburihim yusallun"
"The Prophets are alive in their graves worshipping their Lord"
Sharh by Sheikh GF Haddad :
A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (r) by: al-Bazzar in his Musnad, Abu Ya`la in his Musnad, Ibn `Adi in al-Kamil fi al-du`afa', Tammam al-Razi in al-Fawa'id, al-Bayhaqi in Hayat al-anbiya' fi quburihim, Abu Nu`aym in Akhbar Asbahan, Ibn `Asakir in Târeekh Dimashq, al-Haythami in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:211), al-Suyuti in Anbâ' al-adhkiya' bi-hayat al-anbiya' (#5), and EVEN al-Albani, in Silsilat al-ahadith al-sahihah (#621).
I then declared that this is DEFINITE proof that the Prophet s.a.w. is alive in his grave. In addition, I said that when we go to his grave, we may speak to him and he can listen(i brought this up because salafis love to make an issue out of it). I thus produced the following hadith to substantiate my claim:
2nd hadith :
Man Salla `alayya `inda qabri sami`tuhu, wa man Salla `alayya nâ'iyan bullightuhu
"Whoever invokes blessings on me at my grave, I hear him, and whoever invokes blessings on me from afar, I am informed about it."
Ibn Hajar says in FatH al-Bâri 6:379: "Abu al-Shaykh cites it with a good chain (sanad jayyid)," and Bayhaqi mentions it in Hayât al-anbiyâ with "ublightuhu" in the end.
Before I went off the microphone, I informed the person to please not come up and reject the hadiths I've provided lest he become a Quranist like how some wahabis have become.
sam4546 takes the mic. He starts accusing me of being unfair and that I'm not following the discussion and that i'm rude for just barging in the conversation like how I did. After all the compliments he said "no you see I don't reject those hadiths, they're right and true. The Prophet s.a.w is alive in his grave. But the question that arise now is how is he alive? is he alive like us?(I already informed the room about this that when we say the prophet s.a.w. is alive in the grave we're not saying that he is alive exactly as how we the living on earth are alive) He then said, we have to know that he died like any other man and thereafter presented some verses from the Qur'an speaking about Prophet Muhammad's s.a.w. humanity. In the meanwhile, on text I was asking him, okay fine you agree with the hadiths and that the Prophet s.a.w is alive in his grave, in 'alam barzakh in another state..so what exactly is the issue?(as I stated earlier I thought the issue was this person rejecting the fact that Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is alive in his grave). Without answering my questions, he just droned on until he reached the part where things became clear. He started saying you see..Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. died and those who have died cannot help you or intercede for you. He added that intercession from the Prophet s.a.w. is only valid when he was alive and in the hereafter not after he passed away and when he's dead(the ahl sunnah wal jama'ah usually do not say he's dead since the Sunnah attests that he's alive[plus we agreed that he's alive in his grave], what's going on here is common wahabi script). He then produced some Qur'anic verses to support his case without giving references or proper translations for the people in the room who do not understand arabic(i don't either in fact, well not perfectly anyway). He went on and on until he got dotted yet again.
I took the microphone and congratulated him in affirming the fact that Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is alive in his grave. I went straight to the point and said akhi...about your claim that the dead cannot pray or intercede for us here are some ahadith that may shed some light on the issue:
1st Hadith:
Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Messenger of Allah said,"Hayâti khayrun lakum tuHaddithuna wa yuHaddathu lakum fa idha muttu kânat wafâti khayran lakum tu`raDu `alayya a`mâlukum fa in ra'aytu khayran hamidtu allaha wa in ra'aytu ghayra dhâlik istaghfartu Allaha lakum"
"My life is a great good for you, you will relate about me and it will be related to you, and my death is a great good for you, your actions will be presented to me (in my grave) and if I see goodness I will praise Allah, and if see other than that I will ask forgiveness of him (for you)."
Brief Sharh from Sheikh Dr. GF Haddad :
Qadi `Iyad cites it in "al-Shifa" (1:56 of the Amman edition) and Suyuti said in his "Manahil al-safa fi takhrij ahadith al-shifa" (Beirut 1988/1408) p. 31 (#8): "Ibn Abi Usama cites it in his Musnad from the hadith of Bakr ibn `Abd Allah al-Mazni, and al-Bazzar from the hadith of Ibn Mas`ud with a sound (sahih) chain."
Sharh provided by brother superfaa:
The hadith has a sound chain as stated by al-Suyuti in Manahil al-Safa (p. 31 #8) and al-Khasa'is al-Kubra (2:281), and a sound chain according to al-Haythami (9:24 #91), and a sound chain according to al-`Iraqi in Tarh al-Tathrib (3:297), also Shaykh `Abd Allah al-Talidi said in his Tahdhib al-Khasa'is al-Kubra (p. 458-459 #694) that this chain is sound according to Muslim's criterion, and Shaykh Mahmud Mamduh in Raf`al-Minara (p. 156-169) discusses it at length and declares it sound. Their shaykh, al-Sayyid `Abd Allah ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari (d. 1413/1993) declared it sound in his monograph Nihaya al-Amal fi Sharh wa Tashih Hadith `Ard al-A`mal.), Al-Munawi also declared it sahîh(Al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir (3:401), and so did al-Zurqani in his commentary on al-Qastallani's al-Mawahib al-Laduniyya, and Shihab al-Din al-Khafaji in Al-Khafaji, Sharh al-Shifa' (1:102), al-Mulla `Ali al-Qari adding: "Al-Harith ibn Usama narrated it in his Musnad with a sound chain." (Al-Qari, Sharh al-Shifa' (1:102), referring to the mursal hadith of Bakr al-Muzani.). Ibn Hajar also mentioned it in al-Matalib al-`Alya.(al-Matalib al-`Alya (4:22). This hadith also came to us through another, mursal way from [the Tabi`î] Bakr ibn `Abd Allah al-Muzani. The muhadith Isma`il al-Qadi also narrated it in his monograph on the invocation of blessings on the Prophet.
****THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THIS HADITH***********
2nd Hadith :
From the Sahabi Malik al-Dar:
"The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man[Bilal ibn al- Harith - according to ibn Hajar] came to the grave of the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet(alayhi salaat wa salaam) appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."
Sharh by brother superfaa:
Related by Ibn Abū Shaybah in al-Musannaf (12:31-2#12051); Bayhaqī, Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (7:47); Ibn ‘Abd-ul-Barr, al-Istī‘āb fī ma‘rifat-il-ashāb (2:464); Subkī, Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām (p.130); ‘Alā’-ud-Dīn ‘Alī, Kanz-ul-‘ummāl (8:431#23535); and Abū Ya‘lā Khalīl bin ‘Abdullāh Khalīlī Qazwīnī in Kitāb-ul-irshād fī ma‘rifat ‘ulamā’-il-hadith (1:313-4), as quoted by Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh in Raf‘-ul-minārah (p.262).
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47).
************THERE IS ALSO NO DOUBT ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF THIS HADITH*********
After finishing up I said to sam4546 that these ahadith are agreed upon by all the great muhaditheen of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and their qualification is of no issue. Further more, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. has informed us that "My Ummah will not collectively agree upon an error" and according to many hadith exegesis the term ummah here refers to learned men in the religion, not just any tom, dick or harry. It is difficult to imagine that all these great scholars would have agreed upon a lie or a fabricated narration, when they are known for their great knowledge, dedication and meticulousness. I then again asked him to please not reject the narrations and become a Qur'anist before passing the mic to him.
Sam4546 takes the microphone and re-quoted the first hadith I presented. After quoting it he made the bold claim that...THIS HADITH IS MAUDHU'. IT IS WEAK!!! According to Al-Sarakhshi(or someone that sounds like that, his speech was not really that understandable to me with all due respect) and then he made the great blunder of saying AND ALSO BY SHEIKH ALBANI !! after which he was immediately dotted. I went to the microphone and exclaimed rather loudly that we shall not have THAT in this room ! How dare you cancel and debunk a hadith agreed by a bench of great muhaditheen as saheeh to be weak on the basis of what the charlatan Albani said !!! I then reminded him of the hadith I quoted "My Ummah will not agree upon an error" and asked a rhetorical question who the heck is Albani to question the authenticity of any hadith that has been declared saheeh by qualified, recognised muhaditheen of Islam!?!? I went on saying that Albani made great blunders when he attempted to analyse the hadith and you call him "Sheikhul Hadith" ??? He asked me to pass the microphone to him several times to which i sternly responded saying, I refuse to let the fans of Albani to come to the mic. You sam4546 will just repeat the same thing ! You're just gonna keep saying maudhu' maudhu' maudhu' because that's what Albani said. Your people accuse us of ahl sunnah wal jama'ah of doing taqleed and even go so far as to make takfir on those who say it's wajeeb to do taqleed on a madhab(this is qualified by the scholars of Islam to mean those without knowledge or sound knowledge in the sciences of Islam) YET you do the very same thing!!! The difference is the ahl sunnah wal jama'ah do taqleed on qualified, REAL scholars of Islam while the Wahabis follow superious personalities like Albani. When I was saying these, I was in a sort of frenzy, excited..that I have to admin. Sam4546 said that "YOU ARE 'HIGH TEMPERED'" in reference to my tone. If anyone has heard me talking about something that I'm very passionate about, they would not have mistaken it for anger. The people were asking me to let sam4546 back on the mic and brother Tridax said that "ono, give the mic to sam even if you disagree with him please" to which I responded saying " I shall not allow the lies of the fans of Albani spread in this room ". Anyone who does not agree with my method of controlling my room, may vacate whenever they please. After all, on the banner of my room..it is clearly mentioned that Lying is prohibited. To discredit a legitimate hadith on the basis of what a solitary unauthoritative individual has to say is quite a lie. Seeing that I will not placate and return the mic to him, sam4546 exited the room.
The following is a follow up in pm(private message) :
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sam..habibi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i know you think i'm oppressive
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and maybe even a coward
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i am not
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you see
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i have little patience for albani fans
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and i will not have this albani cancelling the ijma' of the ulama'
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: let me just give you one example of this sheikhul hadith of yours
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i suggest you look it up
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: in Irwa al-Ghalil, 6/251 number 1847
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: a narration from Ali r.a.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Albani had the audacity to say
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Lam aqif ala sanadih !
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: I could not find the sanad to this narration!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: if he had only read Imam Al-Hadith Al-Bayhaqi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: in Sunah Al-Bayhaqi 7/121
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: apparently...your hadith doesn't know his ulum hadith very well
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: hadith master*
sam4546: you are a joke and you know it
sam4546 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Alhamdulillahi RABBIL 'ALAMEEN. The truth prevails. Wassalam.
Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Wahabi Cowardice on Paltalk
The following is a record of what occured at a wahabi owned room called "Social Issues have been hijacked by social outcasts" at about 2:20 pm Malaysian time on Thursday, 6/14/2007. It happened just a few minutes after i had the brief exchange with Sayed provided in the previous post.
abdullah stockton: lol
Shakira_07: i will not sing
abdullah stockton: wahabis
**COMMENTARY:
Someone came up to the microphone and made the claim that there are MANY wahabis in the room.
seekingknowledge_1: omggggggggggg
Shakira_07: hiuh?
abdullah stockton: whats that
**COMMENTARY:
Playing the dumb is a nice game but it really does not help one's position.
Pan Arabist: yes frank
oneguyks: yes many wahabis
Taubah4theStrangers: wahabis?
abu ayyub al-bukhari: alhamdulilah
Sayed777_7: Wahabbies ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: tellytubbies
sofea_7: Ono - ada orang cakap lelaki Muslim boleh kahwin pompan kaffir
be frankk: ws
seekingknowledge_1: frank don't get me mad
abdullah stockton: wahabbies
Ipodnutter: I am wahabis..u got a problem?
Taubah4theStrangers: Allah is Al Wahab
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol sofea
Taubah4theStrangers: Shakira???????
seekingknowledge_1: pm?
Taubah4theStrangers: dont encourage it....
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sofea
seekingknowledge_1: lool
wwisbk: why woman talk
Taubah4theStrangers: Good!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ada ikhtilaf dalam isu itu
abu ayyub al-bukhari: wahhabee=Follower of Al Wahhaab=ALLAaah
**COMMENTARY:
How dare this person equate Ibn Abdul Wahab with Allah s.w.t. ! It has been agreed upon by the Muslims of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah A WAHABI refers to the follower of Ibn Abdul Wahab and the "scholars who support him such as Ibn Baz and Albani.
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
sofea_7: ya - sebab tu banyak khawin haram
be frankk: shakira and dont sing
Sayed777_7: Ono ... go back to your Tassawuf room ? or is it you get bored there ?
seekingknowledge_1: looool
wwisbk: she sing
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
be frankk: what a hipocrite
Sayed777_7: Shakira loool
abu ayyub al-bukhari: sufi cult
**COMMENTARY:
This cowardly fiend has been exposed, please proceed to the post "A little tea party with Paltalk Salafis" for clarification. If there is a cult among the Muslim Ummah, it would be WAHABISM.
Taubah4theStrangers: shiaa or sufi
Sayed777_7: hhh
Pan Arabist: so what if someone is shia
wwisbk: haram
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol Sayed
Sayed777_7: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: tsk tsk
be frankk: lol
seekingknowledge_1: lol shakira
Ipodnutter: But i am not a wallaby like u people who always spending time bashing wahabi
**COMMENTARY:
Ah, we have a bashful maiden in our midst. Wah wah wah, you guys bash wahabis!!! Well what about the bashing and LIES upon LIES the WAHABIS hammer on Muslims i.e. sufis of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. DO unto others what you want others to do unto you.
Anyway, Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah do not go around bashing wahabis and concoct lies about them. This is actually what the average wahabi does on Muslims and Islam. Oh and apprently this person Ipodnutter does recognise the existence of wahabis? lol
Taubah4theStrangers: Masha'Allah Shakira
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan arabist, shia
be frankk: lol
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhhhhhhh
Shakira_07: loool
Sayed777_7: looooooooooooool
wwisbk: woman no talk
seekingknowledge_1: that's not funny
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Radical;
Pan Arabist: Abu Shia are ppl to
Justice33: assalamualaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what is the Ijaza of Albani?
**COMMENTARY:
A person by the name Radical Arab who went to the microphone after the person who spoke of wahabis relinquished it started rebuking him and said that he is a mufti of paltalk and has an ijaza from paltalk. Hearing this, I enquired sincerely what Ijaza did Albani have???
Sayed777_7:
Taubah4theStrangers: ya Allah
be frankk: song is haram
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: would you like telling me about that?
sofea_7: Ono banyak orang jantan Muslim khawin pompan nasrani
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan Arabist shia creed
Legendarella: justice
Ipodnutter: w'salam wr wb
Legendarella: ws
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: who gave Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab Ijaza?
seekingknowledge_1: be frank uskoot
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what ijazas did this person have?
Pan Arabist: Abu sectarianism is bad
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i would very much like to know
Pan Arabist: why do u fall for Zionist ploys?
Ipodnutter: Do u need ijazas?
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Onomat. who GAVE YOU ijaza?
**COMMENTARY:
I do not have an Ijaza since I am not a scholar nor have I ever claimed to be. An Ijaza is owned by a qualified traditional scholar of Islam.
seekingknowledge_1: and yet you played it?
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: traditionally..yes Ipodnutter
**COMMENTARY:
It has been the practice of the scholars of Islam since time immemoriam to have Ijazas i.e. recognition of eminent teachers in Islam before he is regarded as one qualified in the field of 'ilm. This is to avoid "self-made" scholars like Albani who became a scholar by reading books at a library.
Pan Arabist: zionists like to make ppl hate each other
Paltalk: (PS) Your text messsages are currently disabled in this room.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: to be qualified
Taubah4theStrangers: @ whisper
**COMMENTARY:
Failing to respond to my queries, the owner of the room cowardly puts me on dot.
Paltalk: (PS) Your text messsages are currently disabled in this room.
Sayed777_7: Ono ....... enjoy your hindu dot
**COMMENTARY:
This is the Sayed who's exposed on this blog. Even if one is disatisfied about something, is it warranted to say something like that to a fellow brother? I cannot help but wonder if he just made takfir on me.
Ipodnutter: Don't like to talk about contraversy issues
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan Arabist, we hate those whom God hates.
Shakira_07: what?
-----------------END OF TEXT----------------
Wahabism is bankrupt of any proof. Alhamdulillahi RABBIL 'Alameen. Allah s.w.t. exposes the liars and their deceit. Wassalam.
Does Wahabism and Wahabis exist?
Check out these works :
al-Shaykh Muhammad bin `Abdi-l Wahhâb fî Marrât al-`Ulamâ’ al-Sharq wa-l Gharb,
Fasl al-Khitab fi Rad Dalalat Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Kashf al-Hijab an Wajh Dalalat Ibn al-Wahhab.
Sidi Shibli Zaman have written a very interesting article on this very issue. You may read it here http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/13/wahhabi-bah-theres-no-such-thing/
abdullah stockton: lol
Shakira_07: i will not sing
abdullah stockton: wahabis
**COMMENTARY:
Someone came up to the microphone and made the claim that there are MANY wahabis in the room.
seekingknowledge_1: omggggggggggg
Shakira_07: hiuh?
abdullah stockton: whats that
**COMMENTARY:
Playing the dumb is a nice game but it really does not help one's position.
Pan Arabist: yes frank
oneguyks: yes many wahabis
Taubah4theStrangers: wahabis?
abu ayyub al-bukhari: alhamdulilah
Sayed777_7: Wahabbies ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: tellytubbies
sofea_7: Ono - ada orang cakap lelaki Muslim boleh kahwin pompan kaffir
be frankk: ws
seekingknowledge_1: frank don't get me mad
abdullah stockton: wahabbies
Ipodnutter: I am wahabis..u got a problem?
Taubah4theStrangers: Allah is Al Wahab
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol sofea
Taubah4theStrangers: Shakira???????
seekingknowledge_1: pm?
Taubah4theStrangers: dont encourage it....
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: sofea
seekingknowledge_1: lool
wwisbk: why woman talk
Taubah4theStrangers: Good!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ada ikhtilaf dalam isu itu
abu ayyub al-bukhari: wahhabee=Follower of Al Wahhaab=ALLAaah
**COMMENTARY:
How dare this person equate Ibn Abdul Wahab with Allah s.w.t. ! It has been agreed upon by the Muslims of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah A WAHABI refers to the follower of Ibn Abdul Wahab and the "scholars who support him such as Ibn Baz and Albani.
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
sofea_7: ya - sebab tu banyak khawin haram
be frankk: shakira and dont sing
Sayed777_7: Ono ... go back to your Tassawuf room ? or is it you get bored there ?
seekingknowledge_1: looool
wwisbk: she sing
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
be frankk: what a hipocrite
Sayed777_7: Shakira loool
abu ayyub al-bukhari: sufi cult
**COMMENTARY:
This cowardly fiend has been exposed, please proceed to the post "A little tea party with Paltalk Salafis" for clarification. If there is a cult among the Muslim Ummah, it would be WAHABISM.
Taubah4theStrangers: shiaa or sufi
Sayed777_7: hhh
Pan Arabist: so what if someone is shia
wwisbk: haram
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol Sayed
Sayed777_7: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: tsk tsk
be frankk: lol
seekingknowledge_1: lol shakira
Ipodnutter: But i am not a wallaby like u people who always spending time bashing wahabi
**COMMENTARY:
Ah, we have a bashful maiden in our midst. Wah wah wah, you guys bash wahabis!!! Well what about the bashing and LIES upon LIES the WAHABIS hammer on Muslims i.e. sufis of Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah. DO unto others what you want others to do unto you.
Anyway, Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah do not go around bashing wahabis and concoct lies about them. This is actually what the average wahabi does on Muslims and Islam. Oh and apprently this person Ipodnutter does recognise the existence of wahabis? lol
Taubah4theStrangers: Masha'Allah Shakira
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan arabist, shia
be frankk: lol
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhhhhhhh
Shakira_07: loool
Sayed777_7: looooooooooooool
wwisbk: woman no talk
seekingknowledge_1: that's not funny
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Radical;
Pan Arabist: Abu Shia are ppl to
Justice33: assalamualaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what is the Ijaza of Albani?
**COMMENTARY:
A person by the name Radical Arab who went to the microphone after the person who spoke of wahabis relinquished it started rebuking him and said that he is a mufti of paltalk and has an ijaza from paltalk. Hearing this, I enquired sincerely what Ijaza did Albani have???
Sayed777_7:
Taubah4theStrangers: ya Allah
be frankk: song is haram
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: would you like telling me about that?
sofea_7: Ono banyak orang jantan Muslim khawin pompan nasrani
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan Arabist shia creed
Legendarella: justice
Ipodnutter: w'salam wr wb
Legendarella: ws
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: who gave Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab Ijaza?
seekingknowledge_1: be frank uskoot
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what ijazas did this person have?
Pan Arabist: Abu sectarianism is bad
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i would very much like to know
Pan Arabist: why do u fall for Zionist ploys?
Ipodnutter: Do u need ijazas?
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Onomat. who GAVE YOU ijaza?
**COMMENTARY:
I do not have an Ijaza since I am not a scholar nor have I ever claimed to be. An Ijaza is owned by a qualified traditional scholar of Islam.
seekingknowledge_1: and yet you played it?
Taubah4theStrangers: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: traditionally..yes Ipodnutter
**COMMENTARY:
It has been the practice of the scholars of Islam since time immemoriam to have Ijazas i.e. recognition of eminent teachers in Islam before he is regarded as one qualified in the field of 'ilm. This is to avoid "self-made" scholars like Albani who became a scholar by reading books at a library.
Pan Arabist: zionists like to make ppl hate each other
Paltalk: (PS) Your text messsages are currently disabled in this room.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: to be qualified
Taubah4theStrangers: @ whisper
**COMMENTARY:
Failing to respond to my queries, the owner of the room cowardly puts me on dot.
Paltalk: (PS) Your text messsages are currently disabled in this room.
Sayed777_7: Ono ....... enjoy your hindu dot
**COMMENTARY:
This is the Sayed who's exposed on this blog. Even if one is disatisfied about something, is it warranted to say something like that to a fellow brother? I cannot help but wonder if he just made takfir on me.
Ipodnutter: Don't like to talk about contraversy issues
abu ayyub al-bukhari: Pan Arabist, we hate those whom God hates.
Shakira_07: what?
-----------------END OF TEXT----------------
Wahabism is bankrupt of any proof. Alhamdulillahi RABBIL 'Alameen. Allah s.w.t. exposes the liars and their deceit. Wassalam.
Does Wahabism and Wahabis exist?
Check out these works :
al-Shaykh Muhammad bin `Abdi-l Wahhâb fî Marrât al-`Ulamâ’ al-Sharq wa-l Gharb,
Fasl al-Khitab fi Rad Dalalat Ibn Abd al-Wahhab and Kashf al-Hijab an Wajh Dalalat Ibn al-Wahhab.
Sidi Shibli Zaman have written a very interesting article on this very issue. You may read it here http://philomantis.wordpress.com/2007/02/13/wahhabi-bah-theres-no-such-thing/
Sayed_Al_Farsi IS AT IT YET AGAIN !!!!! lol
Below is YET another exchange I had with the infamous Sayed_Al_Farsi the Imam of Wahabis over paltalk on Thursday, 6/14/2007, 2.00 pm Malaysian time.
Sayed777_7:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it's downloading
Sayed777_7: is that Zhikr ?
Sayed777_7: ok
Sayed777_7: check it out
Sayed777_7: LOOK FOR THE OLD GUY
Sayed777_7: WITH LONG WHITE BEARD
Sayed777_7: watch ALL of it , and pm me when you are done, or you can run
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ....Sayed..ur cheap attacks amuse you...don't they?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you're really discontented that you're getting exposed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: all the time
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it's okay
Sayed777_7: have you seenthe video ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i can understand
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Sayed777_7: ok bro
Sayed777_7: relax
Sayed777_7: check out the video
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i am relaxed...i always am
Sayed777_7: i apologise
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wahabis aren't relaxed
Sayed777_7: check out the video
Sayed777_7: ok
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they cower behind their mubtadi' albani
Sayed777_7: we are not
Sayed777_7: but
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Sayed777_7: check out that video
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: right...it's still downloading
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: but the old man
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: with the white beard has appeared
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: his jumping about with a stick
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: okay
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhhh
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and ur point being?
Sayed777_7:
Sayed777_7: its "Zhikr" brother , "Zhikr"
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i can't exactly decypher what they're saying
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: dhikr
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: right
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: alhamdulillah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: may Allah reward them immensely
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhh ... that is Zhikr ? masha'Allah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you've brought this issue up before
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: your dalil
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: apparently is youtube
**COMMENTARY:
Isn't it peculiar, that these people allege themselves to be Ahl Hadith when in fact they are nothing more than ahl hawa' who replace the Qur'an and Sunnah as dalil with youtube?
Sayed777_7: haha ... ty , I will save this conversation
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not the Qur'an or Sunnah
Sayed777_7:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: this is the greatest bid'ah of em all ya Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: that you haven fallen into the mire
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and perversion of the likes of GForce
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ur dalil is no longer the Qur'an or Sunnah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: but rather youtube
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as i have informed you before
Sayed777_7: that is Zhikr ... ty akhi , thats all I needed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: for some infrmation
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: about movement during dhikr
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: there is an article on it
Sayed777_7 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Sayed777_7 came online at 1:56 PM
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: information*
Sayed777_7: can you imagine the Sahaba jumping around like that
Sayed777_7: and running around in a circle ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: actually...the people did Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as i said
Sayed777_7: Auzibillah ... THINK MAN , THINK !
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog
Sayed777_7: wow
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you'll find a hadith there
Sayed777_7: haha ... keep going bro
Sayed777_7: this is great
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: quoted from the Musnad of Imam Ahmad
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you are a great rejector of hadith
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and consider yourself a judge over the Prophet and the sahabah
Sayed777_7: Ono ... so let me get this straight, the Sahaba ran around in circles ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as how albani did
Sayed777_7: and jumped around ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: amazing
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i didn't say that Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed..just do me a favour
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and read the article
Sayed777_7: ..take it easy dude , I will save this
**COMMENTARY:
Does he think I am shaken that he's saving THIS conversation which I have taken the liberty of posting on my own blog? lol..Does he think he has finally "caught" me in a wrong? Even if I am in the wrong in regards to THIS particular issue...now which is worse, apporving an "innovated" way of doing dhikr to Allah s.w.t. e.g. praising him whilst jumping or something the effect(though this isn't bid'ah as has been elaborated in an article on this blog) as the wahabis would put it OR REJECTING authentic Sunnah and calling them corrupted and declaring the sahabah to be mushrik??? na'udhubillah(Refer to the other conversations and exchanges i've had with this Wahabi Imam Sayed_Al_Farsi).
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: educate yourself
Sayed777_7 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: so will I bro
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: so will I
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it shall appear on my blog
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as usual
AlhamdulillahiRABBIL 'Alameen. The liars and their deceit are exposed by Allah.
Sayed777_7:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it's downloading
Sayed777_7: is that Zhikr ?
Sayed777_7: ok
Sayed777_7: check it out
Sayed777_7: LOOK FOR THE OLD GUY
Sayed777_7: WITH LONG WHITE BEARD
Sayed777_7: watch ALL of it , and pm me when you are done, or you can run
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ....Sayed..ur cheap attacks amuse you...don't they?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you're really discontented that you're getting exposed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: all the time
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it's okay
Sayed777_7: have you seenthe video ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i can understand
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Sayed777_7: ok bro
Sayed777_7: relax
Sayed777_7: check out the video
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i am relaxed...i always am
Sayed777_7: i apologise
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wahabis aren't relaxed
Sayed777_7: check out the video
Sayed777_7: ok
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: they cower behind their mubtadi' albani
Sayed777_7: we are not
Sayed777_7: but
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Sayed777_7: check out that video
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: right...it's still downloading
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: but the old man
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: with the white beard has appeared
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: his jumping about with a stick
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: okay
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhhh
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and ur point being?
Sayed777_7:
Sayed777_7: its "Zhikr" brother , "Zhikr"
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i can't exactly decypher what they're saying
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: dhikr
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: right
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: alhamdulillah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: may Allah reward them immensely
Sayed777_7: hhhhhhh ... that is Zhikr ? masha'Allah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you've brought this issue up before
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: your dalil
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: apparently is youtube
**COMMENTARY:
Isn't it peculiar, that these people allege themselves to be Ahl Hadith when in fact they are nothing more than ahl hawa' who replace the Qur'an and Sunnah as dalil with youtube?
Sayed777_7: haha ... ty , I will save this conversation
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not the Qur'an or Sunnah
Sayed777_7:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: this is the greatest bid'ah of em all ya Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: that you haven fallen into the mire
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and perversion of the likes of GForce
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ur dalil is no longer the Qur'an or Sunnah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: but rather youtube
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as i have informed you before
Sayed777_7: that is Zhikr ... ty akhi , thats all I needed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: for some infrmation
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: about movement during dhikr
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: there is an article on it
Sayed777_7 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Sayed777_7 came online at 1:56 PM
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: information*
Sayed777_7: can you imagine the Sahaba jumping around like that
Sayed777_7: and running around in a circle ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: actually...the people did Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as i said
Sayed777_7: Auzibillah ... THINK MAN , THINK !
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog
Sayed777_7: wow
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you'll find a hadith there
Sayed777_7: haha ... keep going bro
Sayed777_7: this is great
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: quoted from the Musnad of Imam Ahmad
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you are a great rejector of hadith
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and consider yourself a judge over the Prophet and the sahabah
Sayed777_7: Ono ... so let me get this straight, the Sahaba ran around in circles ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as how albani did
Sayed777_7: and jumped around ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: amazing
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i didn't say that Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed..just do me a favour
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and read the article
Sayed777_7: ..take it easy dude , I will save this
**COMMENTARY:
Does he think I am shaken that he's saving THIS conversation which I have taken the liberty of posting on my own blog? lol..Does he think he has finally "caught" me in a wrong? Even if I am in the wrong in regards to THIS particular issue...now which is worse, apporving an "innovated" way of doing dhikr to Allah s.w.t. e.g. praising him whilst jumping or something the effect(though this isn't bid'ah as has been elaborated in an article on this blog) as the wahabis would put it OR REJECTING authentic Sunnah and calling them corrupted and declaring the sahabah to be mushrik??? na'udhubillah(Refer to the other conversations and exchanges i've had with this Wahabi Imam Sayed_Al_Farsi).
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: educate yourself
Sayed777_7 is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: so will I bro
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: so will I
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: it shall appear on my blog
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: as usual
AlhamdulillahiRABBIL 'Alameen. The liars and their deceit are exposed by Allah.
Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Rants of yet another wahabi on Paltalk
The following is a record (with my comments) on what transpired in my room on paltalk at about 1 to 3 am, Malaysian time, Under the section of Social Issues, Humanities called "The Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam". The room is open daily for about 12 hours per day. A wahabi by the name Taifat_Al_Mansoura came into the room on a high and mighty pedestal and started rocking the room with his slanders and disinformation.
****Taifat_Al_Mansoura is the famous Sayed_Al_Farsi as i later came to know*****
"Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: are you Sayed?'
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: anyway..yea..you are on my blog
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: ya
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: how did you know ?"
The "prodigal son" enters
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Auzibillah
terminator01: brilliant
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you guys need to get a life
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: who is this
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: hamza Yusef ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sheikh Hamza Yusuf
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: yes
**COMMENTARY:
I was playing an excerpt from a talk by the eminent Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the mic when this person barged in. Without the slightest show of 'adab e.g. greeting the people in the room with the salam, he started ridiculing the room.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: lol ...they guy who said 9.11 firefighters are mujahidden ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: rofl
**COMMENTARY:
This is the usual cheapest attack all the wahabis can and will conjure up against Sheikh Hamza Yusuf. There is a full response to this provided on this blog by Sheikg GF Haddad at http://neosalafism.blogspot.com/2007/05/httpwww.html . Basically, when Sheikh Hamza Yusuf called those kuffar fire fighters "MUJAHIDEEN", contextually, he meant it in the linguistic aspect of the word and was obviously not referring to the technical or shar'i connotation the word carries. The firefighters involved strove, struggled and even lost their lives in their commendable efforts in saving the lives of the civilians on 9/11. They "strove and struggled"...in that sense they were mujahideen for the word SIMPLY means those who strive. These perverted wahabis clearly have a hidden malicious agenda when they try to misquote and tarnish the image of a qualified scholar of Islam.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ...
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not this again
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: loL
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Taifar
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: do me a favour
AS-SOMALI 3: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and yourself
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: I hope you guys do know
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: calling upon other than Allah(swt) for help, is major Shirk
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog http://neosalafism.blogspot.com ...that concern of yours is thoroughly responded to
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: this is EXACTLY what the Pagans of Mecca did
**COMMENTARY:
Calling upon other than Allah for help is major shikr??? If I want, I could rationalise over this. But, I think it's best if I just produced some hadiths since these people allege themselves to be ahl hadith.
Tirmidhi relates, through his chain of narrators from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf, that a blind man came to the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said, "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so please pray to Allah for me." The Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) said: "Go make ablution (wudu), perform two rak'as of prayer, and then say:
"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me". "The Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) added, "And if there is some need, do the same."
Was THIS BLIND MAN NOT SEEKING THE HELP OF ANOTHER BESIDE ALLLAH I.E. THE PROPHET S.A.W.???? IS THIS WAHABI SUGGESTING THAT OUR BELOVED PROPHET S.A.W. COMMITTED MAJOR SHIRK BY APPROVING THIS ACTION OF ASKING SOMEONE BESIDES ALL FOR HELP???? You see..the help was asked to another besides Allah, BUT NOTE that the goal was Allah s.w.t. Himself. The Prophet was used as a means to get through Allah s.w.t , and this is known as TAWASSUL which is an issue made complicated by the wahabis. Allah s.w.t. says "Have fear of Allah and SEEK THE MEANS(Al-WASEELAH) of drawing near to Him, and strive in His Way, so that hopefully you will be successful.” (Qur’an, 5: 35) . How reliable is the hadith provided?
Tirmidhi has stated that the hadith of the blind man is "a hadith that is well or rigorously authenticated, Moreover, Baihaqi related the hadith by way of Hakim and confirmed that it was rigorously authenticated (SAHIH), Hakim having related it by a chain of transmission meeting the standards of Bukhari and Muslim, which the great muhadith Dhahabi confirmed, and Shawkani cited as evidence. The men of the hadith's chain of transmission are known to top Imams of hadith such as Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar, Hakim, Baihaqi, Tabarani, Ibn 'Abd al-Barr, Shawkani, and Ibn Taymiya. This hadith was also recorded by Bukhari in his "al-Tarikh al-kabir", by Ibn Majah in his "Sunan", where he said it was rigorously authenticated (SAHIH), by Nasa'i in "Amal al-yawm wa al-layla", by Abu Nu'aym in "Ma'rifa al-Sahaba", by Baihaqi in "Dala'il al-nubuwwa", by Mundhiri in "al-Targhib wa al-tahrib", by Haythami in "Majma' al zawa'id wa manba' al-fawa'id", by Tabarani in "al-Mu'jam al-kabir", by Ibn Khuzayma in his "Sahih", etc.
That's an instance of calling upon the Prophet s.a.w. when he was alive..now what about after he passed away?
"The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man[Bilal ibn al- Harith - according to ibn Hajar] came to the grave of the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet(alayhi salaat wa salaam) appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."
Related by Ibn Abū Shaybah in al-Musannaf (12:31-2#12051); Bayhaqī, Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (7:47); Ibn ‘Abd-ul-Barr, al-Istī‘āb fī ma‘rifat-il-ashāb (2:464); Subkī, Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām (p.130); ‘Alā’-ud-Dīn ‘Alī, Kanz-ul-‘ummāl (8:431#23535); and Abū Ya‘lā Khalīl bin ‘Abdullāh Khalīlī Qazwīnī in Kitāb-ul-irshād fī ma‘rifat ‘ulamā’-il-hadith (1:313-4), as quoted by Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh in Raf‘-ul-minārah (p.262).
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47).
Is Al-Sahabah Bilal Bin Harith also a mushrik???? astaghfirullah !
This is the clarification from a great Hanafi faqih :
Those who call on them intending "tawassul" cannot be blamed. As for someone who believes that those called upon can cause effects, benefit, or harm, which they create or cause to exist as Allah does, such a person is an idolator who has left Islam - Allah be our refuge! This then, and a certain person has written an article that tawassul to Allah Most High through the righteous is unlawful, while the overwhelming majority of scholars hold it is permissible, and the evidence the writer uses to corrobrate his viewpoint is devoid of anything that demonstrates what he is trying to prove. In declaring tawassul permissible, we are not hovering on brink of idolatory (shirk) or coming anywhere near it, for the conviction that Allah Most High alone has influence over anything, outwardly or inwardly, is a conviction that flows through us like our very lifeblood. If tawassul was idolatory (shirk), or if there were any suspicion of idolatory in it, the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) would not have taught it to the blind man when the latter asked him to supplicate Allah for him, though in fact he did teach him to make "tawassul" to Allah through him. And the notion that tawassul is permissible only during the lifetime of the person through whom it is done but not after his death is unsupported by any viable foundation from Sacred Law ["Rudud 'ala abatil wa rasa'il al-Shaykh Muhammad al-Hamid]
This guy Taifat has been duped and confused by the likes of Albani. For further clarification on the issue of tawassul proceed to http://www.sunnah.org/publication/encyclopedia/html/tawassul.htm
and http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tawas_nuh.html
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Taifat...you've never asked anyone for help in ur life?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: they claimed "these our our intercessors"
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you guys have fallen into the trap, the same trape the Xtians fell into
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: when you a child...you never asked help from ur mother?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: How evil is the plotting and traps of Satan
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you were*
waheedn: hey adam can i ask u a question? cause i forgot....
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Taifat_Al_Mansoura: You cant asked help from the Dead
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: only Allah(swt) is Omnipotent
**COMMENTARY:
This has been answered above. In addition, the dead e.g. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is asked at their grave sites. Not just anywhere.
AS-SOMALI 3: taifat easy man
waheedn: can u tell me the definition of prophet and messenger again?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol..nobody asks the dead for help Taifat
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: The saints cant hear you , they cant even help themselves
**COMMENTARY:
This ignorance is answered by the hadith again.
1.
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
"The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452]
2.
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask……. . Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2 Book 23, Number 456 2. and Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6862 . If the dead can even hear ur footsteps, how is it that they do not hear your voice by Allah's will?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the saints can't hear you?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ..sure they do
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what saints first of all?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and why can the dead not hear you?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: would you like hadith on that?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Tasawwuf = Intercessio = Help = Worship
**COMMENTARY:
Now, what sort of ignorance is this? I ask someone to please show me one place where the scholars of Islam have said that Tasawwuf equals Intercession? This person obiously does not know what he's talking about, hence the title of the article. And by the way dear readers. Help does not mean worship either.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: LOLLL
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wb Tridax
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: That Hadeeth is for a particular situation ,at a particular time, for a particular people
Tridax: Taifat you need to go to elementary maths class.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what hadith Taifat?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: stop worshipping the graves and saints
**COMMENTARY:
This is the hight of their ignorance. Accusing Muslims of worshipping graves and "saints" when none of us commit such heretical blasphemy.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: LOL Tridax
AS-SOMALI 3: ws
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you will be answerable to Allah(swt) on the day of judgement
AS-SOMALI 3: taifat we know
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ... we all will be
**COMMENTARY:
Does he take the people in the room for kids? We will all be answerable to Allah s.w.t. Can anyone be more obvious?
AS-SOMALI 3: just shut it taifat
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: stop worshipping the graves , this is ridiculous
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you say in your Prayer - Iyyakanabudo wa Iyyakanastaeen
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: -even you even pray at all
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ..did The Prophet(pbuh) ask Abraham(as) for help ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: call upon the servants of Allah(swt) ?
waheedn: u mean like angels?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: lol
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ....its OK to call upon Jinn for Help ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Auzibillah
**COMMENTARY:
Whoever asks for the help of Jinns in the room?..I haven't the slightest clue.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: waheed their Hadeeth are fabricated and mis-interpreted
**COMMENTARY:
While this transpired in the room, we offered no exact hadith to substantiate our position. So, how does this person know that the hadeeth we rely upon are fabricated when we didn't even present one for our case? I wonder if he's a student of "Sheikhul Hadith" Albani Al-Kadhab ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ...you have never done so , but its OK ?
waheedn: to be honest taifat i dont go with the hadith just the Quran
**COMMENTARY:
Waheedn is a "Quranist" i.e. rejector of hadith. May Allah guide him.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Allah(swt) guide you people , you may probably be in Major Shirk , you have fallen into the same trap of the Xtians unofortunately
**COMMENTARY:
What trap have we fallen in I pray?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Allah(swt) guide you
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ameen
**COMMENTARY:
AMMEN Allahumma Ameen.
terminator01: she is gone
terminator01: lol
ONE WORD....EXPOSED !
AlhamdulillahiRABBIL 'Alameen. Allah exposes the liars and their deceit. Wassalam.
****Taifat_Al_Mansoura is the famous Sayed_Al_Farsi as i later came to know*****
"Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: are you Sayed?'
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: anyway..yea..you are on my blog
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: ya
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: how did you know ?"
The "prodigal son" enters
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Auzibillah
terminator01: brilliant
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you guys need to get a life
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: who is this
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: hamza Yusef ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sheikh Hamza Yusuf
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: yes
**COMMENTARY:
I was playing an excerpt from a talk by the eminent Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the mic when this person barged in. Without the slightest show of 'adab e.g. greeting the people in the room with the salam, he started ridiculing the room.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: lol ...they guy who said 9.11 firefighters are mujahidden ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: rofl
**COMMENTARY:
This is the usual cheapest attack all the wahabis can and will conjure up against Sheikh Hamza Yusuf. There is a full response to this provided on this blog by Sheikg GF Haddad at http://neosalafism.blogspot.com/2007/05/httpwww.html . Basically, when Sheikh Hamza Yusuf called those kuffar fire fighters "MUJAHIDEEN", contextually, he meant it in the linguistic aspect of the word and was obviously not referring to the technical or shar'i connotation the word carries. The firefighters involved strove, struggled and even lost their lives in their commendable efforts in saving the lives of the civilians on 9/11. They "strove and struggled"...in that sense they were mujahideen for the word SIMPLY means those who strive. These perverted wahabis clearly have a hidden malicious agenda when they try to misquote and tarnish the image of a qualified scholar of Islam.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: ...
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not this again
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: loL
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Taifar
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: do me a favour
AS-SOMALI 3: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and yourself
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: I hope you guys do know
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: calling upon other than Allah(swt) for help, is major Shirk
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: check out my blog http://neosalafism.blogspot.com ...that concern of yours is thoroughly responded to
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: this is EXACTLY what the Pagans of Mecca did
**COMMENTARY:
Calling upon other than Allah for help is major shikr??? If I want, I could rationalise over this. But, I think it's best if I just produced some hadiths since these people allege themselves to be ahl hadith.
Tirmidhi relates, through his chain of narrators from 'Uthman ibn Hunayf, that a blind man came to the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said, "I've been afflicted in my eyesight, so please pray to Allah for me." The Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) said: "Go make ablution (wudu), perform two rak'as of prayer, and then say:
"Oh Allah, I ask You and turn to You through my Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight [and in another version: "for my need, that it may be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me". "The Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) added, "And if there is some need, do the same."
Was THIS BLIND MAN NOT SEEKING THE HELP OF ANOTHER BESIDE ALLLAH I.E. THE PROPHET S.A.W.???? IS THIS WAHABI SUGGESTING THAT OUR BELOVED PROPHET S.A.W. COMMITTED MAJOR SHIRK BY APPROVING THIS ACTION OF ASKING SOMEONE BESIDES ALL FOR HELP???? You see..the help was asked to another besides Allah, BUT NOTE that the goal was Allah s.w.t. Himself. The Prophet was used as a means to get through Allah s.w.t , and this is known as TAWASSUL which is an issue made complicated by the wahabis. Allah s.w.t. says "Have fear of Allah and SEEK THE MEANS(Al-WASEELAH) of drawing near to Him, and strive in His Way, so that hopefully you will be successful.” (Qur’an, 5: 35) . How reliable is the hadith provided?
Tirmidhi has stated that the hadith of the blind man is "a hadith that is well or rigorously authenticated, Moreover, Baihaqi related the hadith by way of Hakim and confirmed that it was rigorously authenticated (SAHIH), Hakim having related it by a chain of transmission meeting the standards of Bukhari and Muslim, which the great muhadith Dhahabi confirmed, and Shawkani cited as evidence. The men of the hadith's chain of transmission are known to top Imams of hadith such as Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar, Hakim, Baihaqi, Tabarani, Ibn 'Abd al-Barr, Shawkani, and Ibn Taymiya. This hadith was also recorded by Bukhari in his "al-Tarikh al-kabir", by Ibn Majah in his "Sunan", where he said it was rigorously authenticated (SAHIH), by Nasa'i in "Amal al-yawm wa al-layla", by Abu Nu'aym in "Ma'rifa al-Sahaba", by Baihaqi in "Dala'il al-nubuwwa", by Mundhiri in "al-Targhib wa al-tahrib", by Haythami in "Majma' al zawa'id wa manba' al-fawa'id", by Tabarani in "al-Mu'jam al-kabir", by Ibn Khuzayma in his "Sahih", etc.
That's an instance of calling upon the Prophet s.a.w. when he was alive..now what about after he passed away?
"The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man[Bilal ibn al- Harith - according to ibn Hajar] came to the grave of the Prophet (alayhi salaat wa salaam) and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet(alayhi salaat wa salaam) appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."
Related by Ibn Abū Shaybah in al-Musannaf (12:31-2#12051); Bayhaqī, Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (7:47); Ibn ‘Abd-ul-Barr, al-Istī‘āb fī ma‘rifat-il-ashāb (2:464); Subkī, Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām (p.130); ‘Alā’-ud-Dīn ‘Alī, Kanz-ul-‘ummāl (8:431#23535); and Abū Ya‘lā Khalīl bin ‘Abdullāh Khalīlī Qazwīnī in Kitāb-ul-irshād fī ma‘rifat ‘ulamā’-il-hadith (1:313-4), as quoted by Mahmūd Sa‘īd Mamdūh in Raf‘-ul-minārah (p.262).
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47).
Is Al-Sahabah Bilal Bin Harith also a mushrik???? astaghfirullah !
This is the clarification from a great Hanafi faqih :
Those who call on them intending "tawassul" cannot be blamed. As for someone who believes that those called upon can cause effects, benefit, or harm, which they create or cause to exist as Allah does, such a person is an idolator who has left Islam - Allah be our refuge! This then, and a certain person has written an article that tawassul to Allah Most High through the righteous is unlawful, while the overwhelming majority of scholars hold it is permissible, and the evidence the writer uses to corrobrate his viewpoint is devoid of anything that demonstrates what he is trying to prove. In declaring tawassul permissible, we are not hovering on brink of idolatory (shirk) or coming anywhere near it, for the conviction that Allah Most High alone has influence over anything, outwardly or inwardly, is a conviction that flows through us like our very lifeblood. If tawassul was idolatory (shirk), or if there were any suspicion of idolatory in it, the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) would not have taught it to the blind man when the latter asked him to supplicate Allah for him, though in fact he did teach him to make "tawassul" to Allah through him. And the notion that tawassul is permissible only during the lifetime of the person through whom it is done but not after his death is unsupported by any viable foundation from Sacred Law ["Rudud 'ala abatil wa rasa'il al-Shaykh Muhammad al-Hamid]
This guy Taifat has been duped and confused by the likes of Albani. For further clarification on the issue of tawassul proceed to http://www.sunnah.org/publication/encyclopedia/html/tawassul.htm
and http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tawas_nuh.html
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Taifat...you've never asked anyone for help in ur life?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: they claimed "these our our intercessors"
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you guys have fallen into the trap, the same trape the Xtians fell into
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: when you a child...you never asked help from ur mother?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: How evil is the plotting and traps of Satan
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you were*
waheedn: hey adam can i ask u a question? cause i forgot....
Paltalk: Upgrade Now -- Get unlimited video all the time!
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: You cant asked help from the Dead
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: only Allah(swt) is Omnipotent
**COMMENTARY:
This has been answered above. In addition, the dead e.g. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is asked at their grave sites. Not just anywhere.
AS-SOMALI 3: taifat easy man
waheedn: can u tell me the definition of prophet and messenger again?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol..nobody asks the dead for help Taifat
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: The saints cant hear you , they cant even help themselves
**COMMENTARY:
This ignorance is answered by the hadith again.
1.
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
"The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: "Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?" then someone exclaimed: "Are you calling out to the dead!" The Prophet replied: "You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond."[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452]
2.
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask……. . Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2 Book 23, Number 456 2. and Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6862 . If the dead can even hear ur footsteps, how is it that they do not hear your voice by Allah's will?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the saints can't hear you?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ..sure they do
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what saints first of all?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and why can the dead not hear you?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: would you like hadith on that?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Tasawwuf = Intercessio = Help = Worship
**COMMENTARY:
Now, what sort of ignorance is this? I ask someone to please show me one place where the scholars of Islam have said that Tasawwuf equals Intercession? This person obiously does not know what he's talking about, hence the title of the article. And by the way dear readers. Help does not mean worship either.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: LOLLL
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wb Tridax
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: That Hadeeth is for a particular situation ,at a particular time, for a particular people
Tridax: Taifat you need to go to elementary maths class.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what hadith Taifat?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: stop worshipping the graves and saints
**COMMENTARY:
This is the hight of their ignorance. Accusing Muslims of worshipping graves and "saints" when none of us commit such heretical blasphemy.
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: LOL Tridax
AS-SOMALI 3: ws
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you will be answerable to Allah(swt) on the day of judgement
AS-SOMALI 3: taifat we know
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ... we all will be
**COMMENTARY:
Does he take the people in the room for kids? We will all be answerable to Allah s.w.t. Can anyone be more obvious?
AS-SOMALI 3: just shut it taifat
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: stop worshipping the graves , this is ridiculous
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: you say in your Prayer - Iyyakanabudo wa Iyyakanastaeen
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: -even you even pray at all
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ..did The Prophet(pbuh) ask Abraham(as) for help ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: call upon the servants of Allah(swt) ?
waheedn: u mean like angels?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: lol
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ....its OK to call upon Jinn for Help ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Auzibillah
**COMMENTARY:
Whoever asks for the help of Jinns in the room?..I haven't the slightest clue.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: waheed their Hadeeth are fabricated and mis-interpreted
**COMMENTARY:
While this transpired in the room, we offered no exact hadith to substantiate our position. So, how does this person know that the hadeeth we rely upon are fabricated when we didn't even present one for our case? I wonder if he's a student of "Sheikhul Hadith" Albani Al-Kadhab ?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ono ...you have never done so , but its OK ?
waheedn: to be honest taifat i dont go with the hadith just the Quran
**COMMENTARY:
Waheedn is a "Quranist" i.e. rejector of hadith. May Allah guide him.
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Allah(swt) guide you people , you may probably be in Major Shirk , you have fallen into the same trap of the Xtians unofortunately
**COMMENTARY:
What trap have we fallen in I pray?
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Allah(swt) guide you
Taifat_Al_Mansoura: Ameen
**COMMENTARY:
AMMEN Allahumma Ameen.
terminator01: she is gone
terminator01: lol
ONE WORD....EXPOSED !
AlhamdulillahiRABBIL 'Alameen. Allah exposes the liars and their deceit. Wassalam.
Salafi oppression and cowardice
12:10 PM , Wednesday 6/13/2007,
A good brother in faith by the name Iman_Islam_Ihsan whom i've know from Yahoo invited me to a hardcore salafi room which was having a class. I responded and came into the room. The speaker who was conducting the "class" was quoting ad verbatim from the texts of Ibn Uthaimeen about issues pertaining to worship. I came in with respect for the people in the room and greeting them with the salam. Thence, I just sat in there like the quiet little wannabe sufi...somehow rather I got dotted in the process. I really don't know what my fault was, but I can't say I didn't expect such a kind treatment from my wahabi brothers on paltalk when I enter their domains as a guest. Regardless, I do not think it was called for, my getting dotted. Anyway, below is an excerpt of what was said in the room :
abdullah salafy: yopu two sufis are dotted because you are sufi's
Umm Abdir Rahman: Allaah ordered us as he said " and the places of prostration (masajids) are for Allaah, so do not call Allaah with them"
abdullah salafy: and we dont want no trouble out of you
Such commendable character.
A good brother in faith by the name Iman_Islam_Ihsan whom i've know from Yahoo invited me to a hardcore salafi room which was having a class. I responded and came into the room. The speaker who was conducting the "class" was quoting ad verbatim from the texts of Ibn Uthaimeen about issues pertaining to worship. I came in with respect for the people in the room and greeting them with the salam. Thence, I just sat in there like the quiet little wannabe sufi...somehow rather I got dotted in the process. I really don't know what my fault was, but I can't say I didn't expect such a kind treatment from my wahabi brothers on paltalk when I enter their domains as a guest. Regardless, I do not think it was called for, my getting dotted. Anyway, below is an excerpt of what was said in the room :
abdullah salafy: yopu two sufis are dotted because you are sufi's
Umm Abdir Rahman: Allaah ordered us as he said " and the places of prostration (masajids) are for Allaah, so do not call Allaah with them"
abdullah salafy: and we dont want no trouble out of you
Such commendable character.
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