Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie vs Paltalk Salafis

A Little Paltalk discource between a Wahabi and an Ahl Sunnah wal Jama'ah
Little Paltalk discource between a Wahabi and an Ahl Sunnah wal Jama'ah

Below is a record of a discource that occured on Paltalk between 5:30 to 6:20 am, Monday, 16th.4.07 . The discource was between Sayed_Al_Farsi and myself with the paltalk nick name Dr Onomatopoeia.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Onomatopoeia: stand together against the deceit of wahabism. www . freewebs . com/wahabismunmasked .
Dr Onomatopoeia: "Study the Qur'an (regularly), for it will act as an intercessor and entreat for its readers on the Day of Judgement."
Prophet Muhammad ,
Abu Umamah reported it in a hadith.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi
Sayed_Al_Farsi: what deceit ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: can you tell me ?
You just sent a nudge!
Dr Onomatopoeia: check out the site
Sayed_Al_Farsi: no
Sayed_Al_Farsi: i want you to tell me, last time you gave me a site, it had content approving of Tawassul to the dead
Dr Onomatopoeia: check out the site
Dr Onomatopoeia: about Tawassuk
Dr Onomatopoeia: Tawassul*
Dr Onomatopoeia: read also the article under Wahabi Fitnah
Dr Onomatopoeia: try to research about tawassul ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: and also the acts of the companions who used to say Ya Muhammad
Dr Onomatopoeia: after the Prophet s.a.w. had already passed away
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi
Sayed_Al_Farsi: they used to say "Ya Muhammed", to remember him, not to call upon Him(saw)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: do you call upon The Rasul(saw) ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: they used to say ya Muhammad
Dr Onomatopoeia: when they were in trouble
Dr Onomatopoeia: and after saying that
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi , to remember him
Dr Onomatopoeia: they were relieved
Dr Onomatopoeia: sometimes immediately
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi ... do you call upon The Rasul(saw) ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: subahanallah indeed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Yes/no ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: i have..yea
Dr Onomatopoeia: Ya Rasulullah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah brother
Dr Onomatopoeia: you ever sung the salawat?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I thought you were a knowledgable brother
Dr Onomatopoeia: sallallah 'ala muhammad
Dr Onomatopoeia: salallah 'alaih wasalam
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes so ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: ANTA shamsun ANT bardu
Dr Onomatopoeia: ANTA nuru faukanuri
Dr Onomatopoeia: ANTA iksiru
Dr Onomatopoeia: waghali
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I dont know of that dua
Dr Onomatopoeia: ANTA misbahus suduri
Dr Onomatopoeia: it's salawat
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: as if speaking to the Prophet s.a.w.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I will tell you 1 hadith
Sayed_Al_Farsi: this issue is simple
Dr Onomatopoeia: it's not that simple
Dr Onomatopoeia: "neo-salafis" have complicated it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "AD DUA HUWAL IBADA" (The Dua is WORSHIP) - The Rasul(saw)
Dr Onomatopoeia: tawassul and du'a
Dr Onomatopoeia: are two different things
Dr Onomatopoeia: learn arabic
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "Iyakanabudo wa Iya Kanastaeen" - you say that EVERYDAY , inshaAllah ...so it is simple
Dr Onomatopoeia: the Prophet s.a.w. himself used to do tawassul for people
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes
Dr Onomatopoeia: if you're saying tawassul means du'a
Sayed_Al_Farsi: when he was ALIVE
Dr Onomatopoeia: then you're stupidly saying
Dr Onomatopoeia: the prophet allowed them to do du'a to him
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Whoever you supplicate to, you are worshipping them
Sayed_Al_Farsi: they never supplicated to him
Sayed_Al_Farsi: NEVER
Dr Onomatopoeia: tawassul is no supplicating sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: they ASKED him to make dua for them
Dr Onomatopoeia: loll
Dr Onomatopoeia: tawassul is basically asking someone to do the supplication for you
Sayed_Al_Farsi: So if me and you make Tawussul to The Rasul(saw), he can hear us both at the same time ... he is omnipresent ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: due to certain reasons
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah brother, you seemed logical
Sayed_Al_Farsi: So if me and you make Tawussul to The Rasul(saw), he can hear us both at the same time ... he is omnipresent ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ??????????????
Dr Onomatopoeia: Sayed....you ever read about Jibra'il sending our salams to the Prophet s.a.w.?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi ... that has nothing to do with it
Dr Onomatopoeia: ....
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you are calling upon him DIRECTLY !
Dr Onomatopoeia: it has everything to do with it
Dr Onomatopoeia: like the wahabais..you're now limiting ur thinking
Dr Onomatopoeia: and trying to limit the scope
Dr Onomatopoeia: to prove urself right
Dr Onomatopoeia: calling upon him directly?
Dr Onomatopoeia: akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: how do you do the tahiyat?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Allah(swt) guide you brother , I do not want to make Takfir on you, but you may be a Mushrik right now
Dr Onomatopoeia: and all of us
Dr Onomatopoeia: in the mean time
Dr Onomatopoeia: tell me
Dr Onomatopoeia: how do you do the tahiyat?
Dr Onomatopoeia: what do you say?
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'll help you
Dr Onomatopoeia: al-tahiyatul mubarakatu salwatu taiyyibatu lillah
Dr Onomatopoeia: assalamu'ALAIKAA
Dr Onomatopoeia: ayyuhan nabiy
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allaah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His names. They will be requited for what they used to do." [al-A’raaf 7:180]
Dr Onomatopoeia: and so on
Dr Onomatopoeia: do you not say that akhi?
Dr Onomatopoeia: Assalamu'alaiKA
Dr Onomatopoeia: KA
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "And your Lord said: ‘Invoke Me (and ask Me for anything), I will respond to your invocation. Verily! Those who scorn My worship [i.e., do not invoke Me and do not believe in My Oneness], they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" [Ghaafir 40:60].
Dr Onomatopoeia: fi'il muttasil
Dr Onomatopoeia: when you address someone
Dr Onomatopoeia: directly
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: yes..i know these verses
Dr Onomatopoeia: hamdulillah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: " And whoever invokes (or worships) besides Allaah, any other god, of whom he has no proof, then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, al-kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah) will not be successful." [al-Mu’minoon 23:117].
Dr Onomatopoeia: Sayed...the verse is speaking about those who worship other things
Sayed_Al_Farsi: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "…And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a qitmeer (the thin membrane over a date-stone). If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad), like Him Who is the All-Knower (of everything)." [Faatir 35:13-14].
Dr Onomatopoeia: with the conception
Dr Onomatopoeia: that those things are also Gods
Dr Onomatopoeia: they are INVOKING other beings
Dr Onomatopoeia: as God
Dr Onomatopoeia: you can throw the whole Qur'an at my face
Dr Onomatopoeia: and you will still be in the wrong
Dr Onomatopoeia: since you cannot disprove
Dr Onomatopoeia: of many ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: relating about the sahabah
Dr Onomatopoeia: asking the Prophet to intercede for them
Dr Onomatopoeia: or other ordinary people
Sayed_Al_Farsi: The Mushrikeen of Mecca used to also say these ... "we do not worship these idols and saints, they are merely our INTERCESSORS , so that we may draw near to Allah"
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: yes they used to say that
Dr Onomatopoeia: and some of them did believe that their patrons
Dr Onomatopoeia: had abilities to grant them things
Dr Onomatopoeia: by themselves
Dr Onomatopoeia: many though
Dr Onomatopoeia: percieve those idols
Dr Onomatopoeia: as intercessors
Dr Onomatopoeia: yes...
Dr Onomatopoeia: and your point being?
Dr Onomatopoeia: would you like me to slap you with ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: relating to the Prophet
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok akhi where is the evidence, that the Sahaba called upon The Rasul(saw) FOR HELP ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: intercessing for the people?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: where is the Hadeeth ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: very well
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "Ya Muhammed" is not sufficient evidence
Sayed_Al_Farsi: "Ya Muhammed MADDAD" , would be
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'll give you one famous example
Sayed_Al_Farsi: let me see it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Hadith numer included <<<
Sayed_Al_Farsi: *number
You just sent a nudge!
Dr Onomatopoeia: The use of the Prophet's uncle illustrates that tawassul is essentially through the Prophet upon him peace, as the importance of al-`Abbas in this respect is only in his relationship to the Prophet as `Umar himself states with the words "the uncle of Your Prophet" in al-Bukhari's version already mentioned; "the status of al-`Abbas in relation to your Prophet" in al-Lalika'i's version; and as al-`Abbas states:
Dr Onomatopoeia: "O Allah, truly no tribulation descends except because of sins, nor is lifted except upon repentence. The people have turned to you by means of me BECAUSE OF MY POSITION IN RELATION TO YOUR PROPHET, and here are our hands [raised up] towards you - despite our sins - and our forelocks in repentence, so send down water for us and PRESERVE YOUR PROPHET IN THE PERSON OF HIS UNCLE." Whereupon the sky let down water as thick as ropes and the people came over to al-`Abbas passing their hands over him and saying to him: "Congratulations to you, irrigator of the two Sanctuaries!" Whereupon `Umar said, "He/This is, by Allah, the means to Allah and the place of nearness to Him!"
Dr Onomatopoeia: Cited from al-Zubayr ibn Bakkar's narration in al-Ansab by Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari (2:497)
Dr Onomatopoeia: Second, the terminology of the Khalifa's request, Allah be well-pleased with him, is as follows:
"O Allah! We would use our Prophet as a means to You and You then sent us rain; now we use our Prophet's uncle as a means to You, therefore send us rain!"
Narrated from Anas by al-Bukhari in his Sa
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Suyuti mentions the context of this event in his Tarikh al-Khulafa' (Beirut, 1992 Ahmad Fares ed. p. 140
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok let me read it
Dr Onomatopoeia: and here's one
Sayed_Al_Farsi: wait
Dr Onomatopoeia: where a companion
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lets go through that first
Dr Onomatopoeia: percieved the Prophet as his refuge
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok lets wait and see
Dr Onomatopoeia: Report of Hassan ibn Thabit who declaimed:
O Pillar of those who rely upon you, O Immunity of those who seek refuge in you, and Resort of those who seek herbiage and rain, and Neighboring Protector of those in need of shelter! O you whom the One God has chosen for His creatures by planting in him perfection and purity of character!
Dr Onomatopoeia: Narrated by Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Isti`ab (1:276) and Ibn Sayyid al-Nas in Minah al-Mad-h (p. 73)
Dr Onomatopoeia: and in
Dr Onomatopoeia: regards
Dr Onomatopoeia: to asking tawassul
Dr Onomatopoeia: from the Prophet
Dr Onomatopoeia: after he had passed away
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok , tell me when you finish, and i will start rading
Dr Onomatopoeia: From the Sahabi Malik al-Dar
Dr Onomatopoeia: The people suffered a drought in `Umar's khilafa, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet sallAllahu `alayhi wa- Alihi wa-Sallam and said: "Messenger of Allah! Ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished." After this the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: Be clever!" The man went and told `Umar. The latter wept and said: "My Lord! I spare no effort except in what escapes my power."
Dr Onomatopoeia: Ibn Kathir cites it thus from al-Bayhaqi's Dala'il al-Nubuwwa (7:47) in al-Bidaya wal-Nihaya (Ma`arif ed. 7:91-92=Dar Ihya' al-Turath ed. 7:105) saying: "isnaduhu sahih" and he also declares its chain sound (isnaduhu jayyidun qawi) in his Jami` al-Masanid (1:223) in Musnad `Umar. Ibn Abi Shayba cites it (6:352=12:31-32) with a sound (sahih) chain as confirmed by Ibn Hajar who says: "rawa Ibn Abi Shayba bi'isnadin sahih" and cites the hadith in Fath al-Bari, Book of Istisqa ch. 3 (1989 ed. 2:629-630=1959 ed. 2:495) as well as in al-Isaba (6:164 §8350=3:484) where he says that Ibn Abi Khaythama cited it. It is also thus narrated by al-Khalili in al-Irshad (1:313- 314) and Ibn `Abd al-Barr in al-Isti`ab (2:464=3:1149).
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Albani attempted to weaken this report in his Tawassul (p. 120) but was refuted in the lengthy analysis given by Mamduh in Raf` al-Minara (p. 262-278), which refutes other similar attempts cf. Ibn Baz's marginalia on Fath al-Bari, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri's tract Wa-Ja'u Yarkudun, Hammad al-Ansari's articles "al-Mafhum al-Sahih lil-Tawassul" also titled "Tuhfat al-Qari fil-Radd `ala al-Ghumari," and other such literature.
Dr Onomatopoeia: bring ur wahabi scholars
Dr Onomatopoeia: i want to see one wahabi scholar
Dr Onomatopoeia: who thinks he's greater than Ibn Haja Al-Asqalani
Dr Onomatopoeia: Hajar*
Dr Onomatopoeia: the truth prevails
Dr Onomatopoeia: you wanna reject authentic ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: and rely on the false understandings of wahabis
Dr Onomatopoeia: akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: that's your privilege
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you done ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: for the moment
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok
Dr Onomatopoeia: if you need more ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: just ask
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes, you can bring as many Ahadeeth as you want, we will analyse them 1 by 1
Dr Onomatopoeia: insha'Allah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: hahah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi , you are smarter than this
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I know you are
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: i am not smarter than the ahadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: no
Sayed_Al_Farsi: 1. "BECAUSE OF MY POSITION IN RELATION TO YOUR PROPHET" - People turned, because they respected Ahlal Bayt and they loved The Rasul(saw) ...
Sayed_Al_Farsi: 2."PRESERVE YOUR PROPHET IN THE PERSON OF HIS UNCLE" - This is not Tawassul, it is DIRECT DUA TO ALLAH(SWT)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: what logic is this ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: ....
Sayed_Al_Farsi: so where is Tawassul in the first Hadeeth ? I can not see it
Dr Onomatopoeia: you are uneducated akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: do you know what tawassul means?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok Iam , so educate me
Sayed_Al_Farsi:
Dr Onomatopoeia: tawassul means
Dr Onomatopoeia: THROUGH THE MEANS
Sayed_Al_Farsi: intercession
Dr Onomatopoeia: or BY MEANS
Dr Onomatopoeia: a sort of method
Dr Onomatopoeia: a way in between
Sayed_Al_Farsi: intercession , yes
Dr Onomatopoeia: yes
Dr Onomatopoeia: read the hadith again
Dr Onomatopoeia: carefully this time
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I have read it ... but i will read it again for you
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Albani attempted to weaken this report in his Tawassul (p. 120) but was refuted in the lengthy analysis given by Mamduh in Raf` al-Minara (p. 262-278), which refutes other similar attempts cf. Ibn Baz's marginalia on Fath al-Bari, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri's tract Wa-Ja'u Yarkudun, Hammad al-Ansari's articles "al-Mafhum al-Sahih lil-Tawassul" also titled "Tuhfat al-Qari fil-Radd `ala al-Ghumari," and other such literature.
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Albani attempted to weaken this report in his Tawassul (p. 120) but was refuted in the lengthy analysis given by Mamduh in Raf` al-Minara (p. 262-278), which refutes other similar attempts cf. Ibn Baz's marginalia on Fath al-Bari, Abu Bakr al-Jaza'iri's tract Wa-Ja'u Yarkudun, Hammad al-Ansari's articles "al-Mafhum al-Sahih lil-Tawassul" also titled "Tuhfat al-Qari fil-Radd `ala al-Ghumari," and other such literature.
Dr Onomatopoeia: woops
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok
Sayed_Al_Farsi: now tell me
Sayed_Al_Farsi: where is the Tawassul there ?
Dr Onomatopoeia:
"O Allah, truly no tribulation descends except because of sins, nor is lifted except upon repentence. The people have turned to you by means of me BECAUSE OF MY POSITION IN RELATION TO YOUR PROPHET, and here are our hands [raised up] towards you - despite our sins - and our forelocks in repentence, so send down water for us and PRESERVE YOUR PROPHET IN THE PERSON OF HIS UNCLE." Whereupon the sky let down water as thick as ropes and the people came over to al-`Abbas passing their hands over him and saying to him: "Congratulations to you, irrigator of the two Sanctuaries!" Whereupon `Umar said, "He/This is, by Allah, the means to Allah and the place of nearness to Him!"
Dr Onomatopoeia: "O Allah, truly no tribulation descends except because of sins, nor is lifted except upon repentence. The people have turned to you by means of me BECAUSE OF MY POSITION IN RELATION TO YOUR PROPHET, and here are our hands [raised up] towards you - despite our sins - and our forelocks in repentence, so send down water for us and PRESERVE YOUR PROPHET IN THE PERSON OF HIS UNCLE." Whereupon the sky let down water as thick as ropes and the people came over to al-`Abbas passing their hands over him and saying to him: "Congratulations to you, irrigator of the two Sanctuaries!" Whereupon `Umar said, "He/This is, by Allah, the means to Allah and the place of nearness to Him!"
Dr Onomatopoeia: THE PEOPLE
Dr Onomatopoeia: HAVE TURNED
Dr Onomatopoeia: TO YOU
Sayed_Al_Farsi: so ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: BY MEANS OF ME
Dr Onomatopoeia: BY MEANS OF ME
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ahh
Sayed_Al_Farsi: wrong akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: IBN 'ABBAS SAID
Dr Onomatopoeia: THAT THE PEOPLE
Dr Onomatopoeia: HAVE TURNED TO YOU (ALLAH)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: what do you mean "by means of me" ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: BY MEANS OF ME
Dr Onomatopoeia: MEANING THROUGH ME
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ibn Abbas was still alive
Dr Onomatopoeia: THE WORD THERE IS TAWASSUL
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes
Sayed_Al_Farsi: akhi listen
Dr Onomatopoeia: BECAUSE OF MY POSITION
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok listen
Sayed_Al_Farsi: 1 sec
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Hypothetically, If I think that you are a sincere Muslim and that Allah(swt) probably loves you dearly and I ask you DIRECTLY "Dr, please make dua for me" , WHEN YOU ARE ALIVE , that is not the same as calling upon the grave of The Rasul(saw)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol ...what logic is that ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I wont even bother reading the other Ahadeeth , I will save them and perhaps read them when Iam less busy later
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Iam not going to make Takfir on you ...but you are probably in a state of Major Shirk ... Allah(swt) guide you , Ameen
---- Sayed_Al_Farisi was kind enough to provide the above discussion which is followed up by the one below provided by Dr. Onomatopoeia( Dr. Ono lost the text above when he met some technical difficulties and had to restart his paltalk) -----
Dr Onomatopoeia: akhi..since you're my good friend
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'll give you another hadith
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Dr Onomatopoeia: tawassul through someone who had died is a big NO NO
Dr Onomatopoeia: to you
Dr Onomatopoeia: right?
Dr Onomatopoeia: what about through someone who have yet to be created?
Dr Onomatopoeia: just through his name?
Dr Onomatopoeia: I asked: "O Messenger of Allah, when were you [first] a Prophet?" He replied: "When Allah created the earth ‘Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens’(2:29), and created the Throne, He wrote on the leg of the Throne: "Muhammad the Messenger of Allah is the Seal of Prophets" (Muhammadun Rasûlullâhi Khâtamu al-Anbiyâ'). Then Allah created the Garden in which He made Adam and Hawwa' dwell, and He wrote my name on the gates, its tree-leaves, its domes and tents, at a time when Adam was still between the spirit and the body. When Allah Most High instilled life into him he looked at the Throne and saw my name, whereupon Allah informed him that 'He [Muhammad SAWS] is the liege-lord of all your descendants.' When Satan deceived them both, they repented and sought intercession to Allah with my name."
Dr Onomatopoeia: : : : : (( : : ) . **ARABIC TEXT 1** REFER BELOW***

Dr Onomatopoeia: The most authentic chain for this report is not that of al-Hakim's narration from `Umar through `Abd al-Rahman ibn Zayd ibn Aslam who is weak (da`îf), but that of the Companion Maysarat al-Fajr who narrates it as [above
Dr Onomatopoeia: Maulana Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abasoomar states:
"The chain of narrators for this Hadith is totally different from the previous one. And in fact, Hafiz ibn Hajar [ra] has stated concerning a completely different narration which has the very same chain of narrators, that this chain of narrators is strong. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen pgs.138-139; al-Ahaadeethul Muntaqaa pg.14, both of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumarie)"
Dr Onomatopoeia: The student of Imam al-Suyuti: Imam Muhammad ibn Yusuf al-Salihi of Damascus, who died in the year 942 AH, has mentioned in his multi-volume Sira work known as: Subul al-Hadi wal Rashhad, this very narration from Maysara (ra) as follows (vol. 1/p. 86, Darul Kutub
Dr Onomatopoeia: Ilmiyya edn, Beirut
Dr Onomatopoeia: : : : . . **ARABIC TEXT 2**REFER BELOW***
Dr Onomatopoeia: okay
Dr Onomatopoeia: just to be really nice to you
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'll give another narration
Dr Onomatopoeia: from Bilal r.a.
Dr Onomatopoeia: In the year of the drought called al-Ramada during the successorship of `Umar the Companion Bilal ibn al-Harith, while slaughtering a sheep for his kin, noticed that the sheep's bones had turned red because the drying flesh was clinging to them. He cried out "Ya Muhammadah!" Then he saw the Prophet - upon him peace - in a dream ordering him to go to `Umar with the tidings of coming rain on condition that `Umar show wisdom. Hearing this, `Umar assembled the people and came out to pray for rain with al-`Abbas, the uncle of the Prophet upon him blessings and peace.
Dr Onomatopoeia: al-Tabari's Tarikh (2:509)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: 1 sec
Dr Onomatopoeia: okay..i'll just a a tad more kind to you
Dr Onomatopoeia: here's one from Aishah r.a.
Dr Onomatopoeia: "The people of Madina complained to `A'isha of the severe drought that they were suffering. She said: "Go to the Prophet's grave and open a window towards the sky so that there will be no roof between him and the sky." They did so, after which they were watered with such rain that vegetation grew and the camels got fat. That year was named the Year of Plenty."
Dr Onomatopoeia: al-Darimi's Sunan, in the 15th Chapter of the Introduction (1:43) titled: "Allah's generosity to His Prophet after his death
Dr Onomatopoeia: The reader will find extensive documentation on this report in the Encyclopedia of Islamic Doctrine (4:47-52) and it was declared authentic by all the Sunni experts of hadith, last in date Shaykh Nabil ibn Hashim al-Ghamri in his 1999 10-volume edition of and commentary on al-Darimi titled Fath al-Mannan (1:564-566) where he rejects the objections of al-Albani and his likes to this hadith.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: dude
Sayed_Al_Farsi: this is not how we discuss
Sayed_Al_Farsi: just throwing evidence left and righ
Dr Onomatopoeia: ....
Dr Onomatopoeia: these evidences are quite clear
Dr Onomatopoeia: you can look them up
Sayed_Al_Farsi: if you are correct, you be confident, not flooding
Dr Onomatopoeia: if you have access to em
Dr Onomatopoeia: i am confident
Dr Onomatopoeia: and i'm not flooding
Dr Onomatopoeia: the prudent thing to do is save the window
Dr Onomatopoeia: and you can check em up anytime
Sayed_Al_Farsi: and I will throw out Ahadeth classified as Daeef by Imam Al-Albanee(r)
Dr Onomatopoeia: for a good source on Tawassul
Dr Onomatopoeia: i suggest you go to this work
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Kawthari, Muhammad Zahid. "Mahq al-Taqawwul fi Mas'alat al-Tawassul" ("The Eradication of Gossip Concerning the Use of Intermediaries") in his Maqalat ("Essays")
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al-Kawthari is a famous jurist
Dr Onomatopoeia: it's in arabic though
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'm not sure if there are english translations of it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: by the way
Sayed_Al_Farsi: as a suffi
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol by Al-Albanee?
Dr Onomatopoeia: subahanallah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you should not believe in a literal throne
Dr Onomatopoeia: bring a better muhadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: or rather
Dr Onomatopoeia: a real muhadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'm not a sufi
Dr Onomatopoeia: and i don't believe in a literal throne
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha ... Imam Albanee(r) was the GREATEST muhadeeth of the 20th century
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha ...
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha ... you do not believe in a literal throne, yet you quote a Hadeeth which speaks of it
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah
Dr Onomatopoeia: that's the common
Dr Onomatopoeia: script of a wahabi
Dr Onomatopoeia: Allah knows best who the greatest muhadith was
Dr Onomatopoeia: i doubt he was greater than sheikhul hadith muhammad zakariya kandhlawi
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: Albanee
Dr Onomatopoeia: thought he was greater than Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani even
Dr Onomatopoeia: LOL
Dr Onomatopoeia: ahahaha
Dr Onomatopoeia: do you know who Ibn Hajar is???
Dr Onomatopoeia: LOLL
Dr Onomatopoeia: Albani is a joke
Dr Onomatopoeia: you don't want me to get on his case
Dr Onomatopoeia: his little works
Dr Onomatopoeia: have you read his writings about Imam Abu Hanifah r.a.?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok
Dr Onomatopoeia: i don't think you've read any of his assessments on the great muhadithoon of Islam
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: tthat Hadeeth was classified as Daeef by Ibn Taymiya(r)
Dr Onomatopoeia: you'd be sick
Dr Onomatopoeia: ....
Dr Onomatopoeia: did you just go consult Shargeeyah?
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: and if you do not follow Ibn Taymiya(r) , Al-Albanee(r) and all the other great Muhadeetheen , then there is no point to this discussion
Dr Onomatopoeia: maybe the whole IAB?
Dr Onomatopoeia: loll
Dr Onomatopoeia: Ibn Taimmiyya was a great muhadith no doubt
Dr Onomatopoeia: but not albani sir
Dr Onomatopoeia: all right
Sayed_Al_Farsi: No , I called my Imam
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're asking for it
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: call your imam to talk to me
Dr Onomatopoeia: anyway
Dr Onomatopoeia: you asked for it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: bring me Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim ...which is what I will do
Dr Onomatopoeia: let me get on mister albani's case now
Sayed_Al_Farsi: that way, we can not debate the authenticity
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you believe in Saheeh of Bukhari and Muslim right ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: you are a fool is you think Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are the only books referred to in Islam
Dr Onomatopoeia: Sayed
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're beginning to be annoying
Dr Onomatopoeia: you must realise how silly you seem now
Dr Onomatopoeia: anyway
Dr Onomatopoeia: let's get on albani first
Sayed_Al_Farsi: They are the most authentic, we cant not doubt the vast majority of their authenticites
Dr Onomatopoeia: they are the most authentic?
Dr Onomatopoeia: the most authentic is sahih bukhari
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you are just bringing silly suffi-circulated Ahadeeth , which you do not even believe in yourself (i.e. a literal throne)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: and then you have 5 other compilations
Dr Onomatopoeia: which are equally valuable
Dr Onomatopoeia: and important
Dr Onomatopoeia: then you have persons like An-Nawawi
Dr Onomatopoeia: and Sufis like Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani
Dr Onomatopoeia: author
Dr Onomatopoeia: of Fath Al-Bari
Dr Onomatopoeia: the greatest sharh of Sahih Bukhari
Sayed_Al_Farsi: looooooool
Dr Onomatopoeia: possibly the greatest muhadith
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you think Iam an idiot ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: no
Dr Onomatopoeia: i know that you are
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes Shaykh
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: you should read Fath Al-Bari sometimes
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: or maybe you'll like to step on it
Dr Onomatopoeia: as how albani did
Dr Onomatopoeia: maybe ur imam likes to step on it too
Dr Onomatopoeia: i dunno
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you can go and call upon the saints and the graves all you want ... I will only call upon Allah(swt), my Rabb , as I promise him everyday "Iya kanabudo wa Iya kanastaeen"
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: so where is Allah(swt) , everywhere ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: SubhanAllah
Dr Onomatopoeia: how did you come to that conclusion?
Dr Onomatopoeia: we're not even discussing Allah's attributes right now
Dr Onomatopoeia: see
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're jumping to conclusions again
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I knew there was suffis in Malaysia/indonesia, but i did not realise they were this extreme
Dr Onomatopoeia: wahabism is a disease
Dr Onomatopoeia: that destroys the brain
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're trying to pull a fast one now
Dr Onomatopoeia: divert my attention
Dr Onomatopoeia: to defensive mode
Dr Onomatopoeia: instead of getting on albani's case
Dr Onomatopoeia: loll
Sayed_Al_Farsi: only Allah(swt) is Omnipresent, none else
Dr Onomatopoeia: i can explain every single unfounded accusation and claim you brought up
Dr Onomatopoeia: and will prolly bring up
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Wahabi ? VAST MAJORITY of Muslims reject this Shirk
Sayed_Al_Farsi: go to any room , and take a poll
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: you mean on paltalk?
Dr Onomatopoeia: most paltalkers are wahabis
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: paltalk muslims
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: you'd be a real joke to deny that
Dr Onomatopoeia: let's leave polls out
Dr Onomatopoeia: let's deal with solid evidences
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Yes , whoever exposes Suffism/Shism/Ashariya and all other deviants is Wahabi
Dr Onomatopoeia: from authentic
Dr Onomatopoeia: reliable Islamic books
Sayed_Al_Farsi: this is exactly what the Shia also do, to slander Ahlus Sunnah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: calling them Wahabi
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'll show you how many great scholars
Dr Onomatopoeia: have written against ur little albani
Sayed_Al_Farsi: we are Wahabi, Alhamdulilah, Allah(swt) is Al-Wahab(swt)
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Indian hadith scholar Habib al-Rahman al-A`zami who wrote al-Albani Shudhudhuh wa Akhta'uh ("Al-Albani's Aberrations and Errors") in four volumes
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Syrian scholar Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti who wrote the two classics al-Lamadhhabiyya Akhtaru Bid`atin Tuhaddidu al-Shari`a al-Islamiyya ("Not Following A School of Jurisprudence is the Most Dangerous Innovation Threatening Islamic Sacred Law") and al-Salafiyya Marhalatun Zamaniyyatun Mubaraka La Madhhabun Islami ("The `Way of the Early Muslims' Was A Blessed Historical Epoch, Not An Islamic School of Thought")
Dr Onomatopoeia: ill give u these references
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha@ Indian Hadeeth Scholar
Dr Onomatopoeia: take them to ur imam
Dr Onomatopoeia: and then i will proceed
Dr Onomatopoeia: to exposing him
Dr Onomatopoeia: based on his works
Sayed_Al_Farsi: hehe
Sayed_Al_Farsi: so where is Allah(swt)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Moroccan hadith scholar `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari who wrote Irgham al-Mubtadi` al-Ghabi bi Jawaz al-Tawassul bi al-Nabi fi al-Radd `ala al-Albani al-Wabi ("The Coercion of the Unintelligent Innovator with the Licitness of Using the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - as an Intermediary in Refutation of al-Albani the Baneful"), al-Qawl al-Muqni` fi al-Radd `ala al-Albani al-Mubtadi` ("The Persuasive Discourse in Refutation of al-Albani the Innovator"), and Itqan al-Sun`a fi Tahqiq Ma`na al-Bid`a ("Precise Handiwork in Ascertaining the Meaning of Innovation").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I want to know how deviated you are
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Moroccan hadith scholar `Abd al-`Aziz ibn Muhammad ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari who wrote Bayan Nakth al-Nakith al-Mu`tadi ("The Exposition of the Treachery of the Rebel").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: stop copy-pasting
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Syrian hadith scholar `Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudda who wrote Radd `ala Abatil wa Iftira'at Nasir al-Albani wa Sahibihi Sabiqan Zuhayr al-Shawish wa Mu'azirihima ("Refutation of the Falsehoods and Fabrications of Nasir al-Albani and his Former Friend Zuhayr al-Shawish and their Supporters").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Mr copy-paste Shaykh
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: stop trying to divert my attention
Dr Onomatopoeia: when you can't handle the great amount
Dr Onomatopoeia: of evidence
Sayed_Al_Farsi: come on , last question
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Egyptian Hadith scholar Muhammad `Awwama who wrote Adab al-Ikhtilaf ("The Proper Manners of Expressing Difference of Opinion").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Where is Allah(swt) ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ???????????????
Sayed_Al_Farsi: copy-paste
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Egyptian hadith scholar Mahmud Sa`id Mamduh who wrote Wusul al-Tahani bi Ithbat Sunniyyat al-Subha wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani ("The Alighting of Mutual Benefit and Confirmation that the Dhikr-Beads are a Sunna in Refutation of al-Albani") and Tanbih al-Muslim ila Ta`addi al-Albani `ala Sahih Muslim ("Warning to the Muslim Concerning al-Albani's Attack on Sahih Muslim").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: copy-paste
Sayed_Al_Farsi: copy-paste
Dr Onomatopoeia: i've grown tired of answering that bid'ah question
Sayed_Al_Farsi: cope-paste
Dr Onomatopoeia: from silly wahabis
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Where is Allah(swt) ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Where is Allah(swt) ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Saudi hadith scholar Isma`il ibn Muhammad al-Ansar who wrote Ta`aqqubat `ala "Silsilat al-Ahadith al-Da`ifa wa al-Mawdu`a" li al-Albani ("Critique of al-Albani's Book on Weak and Forged Hadiths"), Tashih Salat al-Tarawih `Ishrina Rak`atan wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani fi Tad`ifih ("Establishing as Correct the Tarawih Salat in Twenty Rak`as and the Refutation of Its Weakening by al-Albani"), and Ibahat al-Tahalli bi al-Dhahab al-Muhallaq li al-Nisa' wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani fi Tahrimih ("The Licitness of Wearing Gold Jewelry for Women Contrary to al-Albani's Prohibition of it").
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Syrian scholar Badr al-Din Hasan Diab who wrote Anwar al-Masabih `ala Zulumat al-Albani fi Salat al-Tarawih ("Illuminating the Darkness of al-Albani over the Tarawih Prayer").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: are you coward, or do you just not know where your Lord is ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Director of Religious Endowments in Dubai, `Isa ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mani` al-Himyari who wrote al-I`lam bi Istihbab Shadd al-Rihal li Ziyarati Qabri Khayr al-Anam - Allah bless and greet him - ("The Notification Concerning the Recommendation of Travelling to Visit the Grave of the Best of Creation - Allah bless and greet him -) and al-Bid`a al-Hasana Aslun Min Usul al-Tashri` ("The Excellent Innovation Is One of the Sources of Islamic Legislation").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: its OK , just say you do not know
Dr Onomatopoeia: to your question
Dr Onomatopoeia: i simply answer
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Sabr akhi, insha'Allah you will be guided
Dr Onomatopoeia: wallahu'alam bisawab
Dr Onomatopoeia: i am sabr
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're not
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're getting
Dr Onomatopoeia: frustrated
Sayed_Al_Farsi: bisawab ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: emotional
Dr Onomatopoeia: judgemental
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Sayed_Al_Farsi:
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Minister of Islamic Affairs and Religious Endowments in the United Arab Emirates Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Khazraji who wrote the article al-Albani: Tatarrufatuh ("Al-Albani's Extremist Positions").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I just want a simple answer
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: The Jordanian scholar Hasan `Ali al-Saqqaf who wrote the two-volume Tanaqudat al-Albani al-Wadiha fi ma Waqa`a fi Tashih al-Ahadith wa Tad`ifiha min Akhta' wa Ghaltat ("Albani's Patent Self-Contradictions in the Mistakes and Blunders He Committed While Declaring Hadiths to be Sound or Weak"), Ihtijaj al-Kha'ib bi `Ibarat man Idda`a al-Ijma` fa Huwa Kadhib ("The Loser's Recourse to the Phrase: `Whoever Claims Consensus Is a Liar!'"), al-Qawl al-Thabtu fi Siyami Yawm al-Sabt ("The Firm Discourse Concerning Fasting on Saturdays"), al-Lajif al-Dhu`af li al-Mutala`ib bi Ahkam al-I`tikaf ("The Lethal Strike Against Him Who Toys with the Rulings of I`tikaf), Sahih Sifat Salat al-Nabi Sallallahu `alayhi wa Sallam ("The Correct Description of the Prophet's Prayer - Allah bless and greet him -"), I`lam al-Kha'id bi Tahrim al-Qur'an `ala al-Junub wa al-Ha'id ("The Appraisal of the Meddler in the Interdiction of the Qur'an to those in a State of Major Defilement and Menstruating Women"), Talqih al-Fuhum al-`Aliya ("The Inculcation of Lofty Discernment"), and Sahih Sharh al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya ("The Correct Explanation of al-Tahawi's Statement of Islamic Doctrine").
Sayed_Al_Farsi: V
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Dr Onomatopoeia: one of albani's greatest blunder
Dr Onomatopoeia: was to equate
Dr Onomatopoeia: Hanafi fiqh
Dr Onomatopoeia: with the Gospel
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: al-Mundhiri's Mukhtasar Sahih Muslim, 3rd ed. (Beirut: al-Maktab al-Islami, 1977, p. 548)
Dr Onomatopoeia: that's how devilish albani was
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: He advocates in his Salat al-Nabi - Allah bless and greet him -, the formula "Peace and blessings upon the Prophet" instead of "upon you, O Prophet" in the tashahhud in contradiction of the Four Sunni Schools, on the basis of a hadith of Ibn Mas`ud whereby the Companions used the indirect-speech formula after the passing of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him -. But the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - himself instructed them to pray exactly as he prayed saying: "Peace and blessings upon you, O Prophet" without telling them to change it after his death, nor did the major Companions (whose Sunna we were ordered to imitate together with that of the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him -), such as Abu Bakr and `Umar, teach the Companions and Successors otherwise!
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: he accuses people of bid'ah
Dr Onomatopoeia: the idiot
Dr Onomatopoeia: falsified the Prophet's own teaching
Dr Onomatopoeia: command
Dr Onomatopoeia: to say
Dr Onomatopoeia: assalami'alaika
Dr Onomatopoeia: and you follow him
Dr Onomatopoeia: subahanallah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you can not even answer
Sayed_Al_Farsi: oh my
Sayed_Al_Farsi:
Dr Onomatopoeia: He considers it an innovation to visit relatives, neighbors, or friends on the day of `Eid and prohibits it
Dr Onomatopoeia: do you visit relatives Sayed?
Dr Onomatopoeia: on Eid?
Dr Onomatopoeia: your precious albani
Dr Onomatopoeia: made a fatwa against it
Dr Onomatopoeia: called it bid'ah
Dr Onomatopoeia: 8Fatawa (p. 61-63)
Dr Onomatopoeia: hmm what else
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Dr Onomatopoeia: He perpetuates lies if they detract from Ash`aris, such as his remark that Imam Sayf al-Din al-Amidi did not pray,20 although Dr. Hasan al-Shafi`i in his massive biography entitled al-Amidi wa Ara'uhu al-Kalamiyya showed that the story that al-Amidi did not pray was a forgery put into circulation during the campaign waged by Imam Ibn al-Salah against him for teaching logic and philosophy in Damascus.
Dr Onomatopoeia: that's how careful he is
Dr Onomatopoeia: in 'il jarh wa ta'dil
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Dr Onomatopoeia: i wonder how he passed as a muhadith
Dr Onomatopoeia: 'im*
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Iam not reading your text, untill you answer me
Sayed_Al_Farsi:
Dr Onomatopoeia: 'ilm**
Sayed_Al_Farsi:
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: Nu`man al-Alusi's al-Ayat al-Bayyinat (p. 88)
Dr Onomatopoeia: i answered
Dr Onomatopoeia: you
Dr Onomatopoeia: but it was no sufficient obviously
Sayed_Al_Farsi: no you didnt
Dr Onomatopoeia: you want me to pinpoint to you where Allah is
Sayed_Al_Farsi: answer me, in ENGLISH
Dr Onomatopoeia: such blasphemy
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: wallahu'alam bisawab
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGLISH
Dr Onomatopoeia: stop acting childish
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ya Habibey, La Arabiya
Dr Onomatopoeia: and start defending ur great muhadith
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ana FARSI
Dr Onomatopoeia: against such a great onslaught
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: you follow a deviant who made satanic fatawa
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I did not read your copy=pasting, nor will I do so, untill you answer my question
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: WHERE IS ALLAH(SWT) ? YOUR LORD !
Dr Onomatopoeia: this is my answer to you
Dr Onomatopoeia: i hope it will satisfy you
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ENGLISH !
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ok now I have to throw a monkey at you
Sayed_Al_Farsi just sent you a nudge!
Sayed_Al_Farsi: brb ... you better give me answer by then
Sayed_Al_Farsi: or admit you have no idea
Dr Onomatopoeia: We believe that {the Merciful established Himself over the Throne} (20:5), and we do not know the reality of the meaning of this nor what is meant by it (la na`lamu haqiqata mi`na dhalika wa al-murada bihi), while we do believe that {There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him} (42:11) and that He is exalted far above the most elevated of created things. That is the way of the Salaf or at least their vast majority, and it is the safest because one is not required to probe into such matters." - Al-Nawawi
Dr Onomatopoeia: we do not assume where Allah is
Dr Onomatopoeia: we take it on face value
Dr Onomatopoeia: and say
Dr Onomatopoeia: wallahu'alam bisawab
Dr Onomatopoeia: that is the true way of the salaf
Dr Onomatopoeia: now..let's get back to mr albani
Dr Onomatopoeia: He gives free rein to his propensity to insult and vilify the Ulema of the past as well as his contemporaries. As a result it is difficult to wade through his writings without being affected by the nefarious spirit that permeates them. For example, he considers previous editors and commentators of al-Bukhari's al-Adab al-Mufrad ("Book of Manners"!) "sinful," "unbearably ignorant," and even "liars" and "thieves." Of one he says: "There are so many weak hadiths [in his choice]... that it is an unislamic practice"; of another: "It is ignorance which must not be tolerated"; of another: "Forgery and open lie... His edition is stolen [from a previous one]."16 Such examples actually fill a book compiled by Shaykh Hasan `Ali al-Saqqaf and titled Qamus Shata'im al-Albani wa Alfazihi al-Munkara al-Lati Yatluquha `ala `Ulama' al-Umma ("Dictionary of al-Albani's Insults and the Heinous Words He Uses Against the Scholars of the Muslim Community").
Dr Onomatopoeia: Sahih al-Adab al-Mufrad (Introduction, p. 15, 20, 26)
Dr Onomatopoeia: Albani considered himself the judge of all previous muhadithoon
Dr Onomatopoeia: he was great all right
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Dr Onomatopoeia: He derides the fuqahâ' of the Umma for accepting - in their massive majority - the hadith of Mu`adh ibn Jabal on ijtihâd as authentic then rejects the definition of knowledge (`ilm) in Islam as pertaining to fiqh but claims that it pertains only to hadith,22 although the Ulema of the Salaf explicitly said that a hadith master without fiqh is a misguided innovator! And he defines the `âlim as "meaning, of course, the `Salafi' `âlim, not the `Khalafi [late Egyptian Shaykh] Ghazali'!"23 Al-Qurtubi said: "One of the knowers of Allah said: A certain group that has not yet come up in our time but shall show up at the end of time, will curse the scholars and insult the jurists."24
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I see that you have no Ilm at all, you just regergetate what other say to you
Dr Onomatopoeia: Al--Qurtubi, Tafsir (7:191)
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: i regurgitate evidences
Dr Onomatopoeia: not emotions
Sayed_Al_Farsi: above the Dunya is the 7 Heavens, above the Heavens is the water, above the water is throne, and above the throen is Allah(swt)
Dr Onomatopoeia: and silly insinuations
Sayed_Al_Farsi: that is according to Bukhari
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Dr Onomatopoeia: i've done my duty
Dr Onomatopoeia: i've shown you copious
Dr Onomatopoeia: evidences in regards to the deviancy of albani
Sayed_Al_Farsi: fear Allah(swt) !
Dr Onomatopoeia: and the warnings of great scholars
Dr Onomatopoeia: against the group of deviants
Dr Onomatopoeia: who will start harrasing great scholars of Islam
Dr Onomatopoeia: and think they're some sort of judge over every single great scholar that preceeded them
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you are Deviant
Dr Onomatopoeia: ...
Sayed_Al_Farsi: you are too arragont to accept the truth
Dr Onomatopoeia: you accuse me without evidence
Dr Onomatopoeia: too arrogant?
Dr Onomatopoeia: you're too jaundist
Dr Onomatopoeia: and blind to see anything
Dr Onomatopoeia: you've rejected every single evidence
Dr Onomatopoeia: piece of hadith
Sayed_Al_Farsi: haha @ jaundist
Dr Onomatopoeia: everything i offered
Dr Onomatopoeia: and from the start
Dr Onomatopoeia: you've been judging
Dr Onomatopoeia: and concluding
Dr Onomatopoeia: loosely
Sayed_Al_Farsi: what evidence , Suffi Concoted myth ?
Dr Onomatopoeia: this is the way of the wahabi
Sayed_Al_Farsi: *concocted
Dr Onomatopoeia: they're not interested in intellectual discource
Dr Onomatopoeia: or evidence
Dr Onomatopoeia: they're just interested in labelling people
Dr Onomatopoeia: and degrading them
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Iam Wahabi, ALHAMDULILAH , Allah(swt) is Al-Wahab(swT)
Dr Onomatopoeia: oo not just ordinary people at that
Dr Onomatopoeia: but great scholars of Islam
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'm speaking of ibn wahab
Dr Onomatopoeia: not Al-Wahab
Dr Onomatopoeia: don't try to equate that liar with Allah
Dr Onomatopoeia: fear Allah akhi
Dr Onomatopoeia: anyway
Dr Onomatopoeia: again
Dr Onomatopoeia: i've done my job
Sayed_Al_Farsi: 1 advice
Dr Onomatopoeia: i do not wish to receieve furtther
Dr Onomatopoeia: judgements from you
Dr Onomatopoeia: so for the sake of your soul
Dr Onomatopoeia: and mine
Dr Onomatopoeia: i will block you
Dr Onomatopoeia: jazakallah khair
Sayed_Al_Farsi: if you continue to circulate these Deviant Sites , I will expose your deviancy to all
Dr Onomatopoeia: Assalamu'alaikum Warahmatullah
Dr Onomatopoeia: ooo
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol is that a threat?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: keep your deviancy to yourself
Dr Onomatopoeia: you have just exposed yourself akhi
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes
Dr Onomatopoeia: the evidence is against you
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ya
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ..."evidence" hehe
Dr Onomatopoeia: i'm saving this text
Sayed_Al_Farsi: save away
Dr Onomatopoeia: and will present it to all the websites i'm affiliated with
Dr Onomatopoeia: the readers will be the judge
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Dr Onomatopoeia: thank you
Sayed_Al_Farsi: and distribute it, so that people may know your deviancy
Sayed_Al_Farsi: OK ...I will expose you now

DISCUSSION ENDS

________________________________________
**Arabic Text 1 :
ÞÏ ÃÎÑÌ ÇáÍÇÝÙ ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä Èä ÈÔÑÇä ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ Ãæ ÌÚÝÑ ãÍãÏ ÇÈä ÚãÑæ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ÓÍÇÞ Èä ÕÇáÍ¡ ËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÕÇáÍ¡ ËäÇ ãÍãÏ ÇÈä ÓäÇä ÇáÚæÞí¡ ËäÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ØåãÇä¡ Úä ÈÏíá Èä ãíÓÑÉ¡ Úä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÔÞíÞ¡ Úä ãíÓÑÉ ÞÇá: ÞáÊ: íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå¡ ãÊì ßäÊ äÈíÇð ¿ ÞÇá: (( áãÇ ÎáÞ Çááå ÇáÃÑÖ æÇÓÊæì Åáì ÇáÓãÇÁ ÝÓæÇåä ÓÈÚ ÓãÇæÇÊ ¡ æÎáÞ ÇáÚÑÔ¡ßÊÈ Úáì ÓÇÞ ÇáÚÑÔ: ãÍãÏ ÑÓæá Çááå ÎÇÊã ÇáÃäÈíÇÁ¡ æÎáÞ Çááå ÇáÌäÉ ÇáÊí ÃÓßäåÇ ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ¡ ÝßÊÈ ÇÓãí Úáì ÇáÃÈæÇÈ¡ æÇáÃæÑÇÞ æÇáÞÈÇÈ¡ æÇáÎíÇã¡æÂÏã Èíä ÇáÑæÍ æÇáÌÓÏ¡ÝáãÇ ÃÍíÇå Çááå ÊÚÇáì: äÙÑ Åáì ÇáÚÑÔ ÝÑÃì ÇÓãí ÝÃÎÈÑå Çááå Ãäå ÓíÏ æáÏß¡ ÝáãÇ ÛÑåãÇ ÇáÔíØÇä ¡ ÊÇÈÇ æÇÓÊÔÝÚÇ ÈÇÓãí Åáíå ) .
æÃÎÑÌå ÇÈä ÇáÌæÒí Ýí ÇáæÝÇ ÈÝÖÇÆá ÇáãÕØÝì ãä ØÑíÞ ÇÈä ÈÔÑÇä
al-Radd al-Muhkam al-Matin (p. 138-139)

**Arabic Text 2 :
æÑæì ÇÈä ÇáÌæÒí ÈÓäÏ ÌíÏ áÇ ÈÃÓ Èå ¡ Úä ãíÓÑÉ ÑÖí Çááå ÊÚÇáì Úäå ÞÇá : ÞáÊ íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ¡ ãÊì ßäÊ äÈíÇ ¿ ÞÇá : áãÇ ÎáÞ Çááå ÇáÃÑÖ æÇÓÊæì Åáì ÇáÓãÇÁ ÝÓæÇåä ÓÈÚ ÓãÇæÇÊ æÎáÞ ÇáÚÑÔ ßÊÈ Úáì ÓÇÞ ÇáÚÑÔ : ãÍãÏ ÑÓæá Çááå ÎÇÊã ÇáÃäÈíÇÁ . æÎáÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÇáÌäÉ ÇáÊí ÃÓßäåÇ ÂÏã æÍæÇÁ ¡ ÝßÊÈ ÇÓãí Úáì ÇáÃæÑÇÞ æÇáÃÈæÇÈ æÇáÞÈÇÈ æÇáÎíÇã ¡ æÂÏã Èíä ÇáÑæÍ æÇáÌÓÏ ¡ ÝáãÇ ÃÍíÇå Çááå ÊÚÇáì äÙÑ Åáì ÇáÚÑÔ ÝÑÃì ÇÓãí ¡ ÝÃÎÈÑå Çááå ÊÚÇáì Ãäå ÓíÏ æáÏß . ÝáãÇ ÛÑåãÇ ÇáÔíØÇä ÊÇÈÇ æÇÓÊÔÝÚÇ ÈÇÓãí Åáíå
vol. 1/p. 86, Darul Kutub Ilmiyya edn, Beirut) from Imam ibn al Jawzi
------------------------------------
When brother Dr Onomatopoeia spoke about saying Ya Muhammad by the salaf, he was referring to the below instances :
Imam Bukhari, Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani all posed the same question, that if a person's foot becomes numb, what should he do? Their recommendations were the same, and included with their answer, the following hadith:

Some time after Rasul Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), had passed away, 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] was in Najd where one day his foot became numb. As a remedy to alleviate the pain, a person said to him. "Remember the one whom you love the most!" Upon hearing this Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] said "Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]" and his foot made an immediate recovery from numbness.

[Imam Bukhari, Adab al Mufrad al Kalim al Tayyab; Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani, Tuhfah al Dakireen chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu, and also Imam Nawawi's Kitab al Adkar]
Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya writes, In the same way as 'Abd Allah ibn Umar's foot became numb and he remembered the one he loves the most, 'Abd Allah Ibn Abbas's foot also became numb. Someone also said to him to remember the one who he loves the most, whereupon 'Abd Allah Ibn Abbas said Ya! Muhammad [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] and his foot immediately recovered from numbness.

[Hafidhh ibn Taymiyya, Al Kalim al Tayyib chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu]
Hafidhh Ibn Kathir, Imam Tabari and Imam Ibn Athir all wrote [that]: During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as- Siddique, may Allah be pleased with Him, there was a battle against the false Prophet Musaylima [of Najd]. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid bin Walid, may Allah be pleased with Him, and the rest of the companions called out "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] and proceeded to win the battle.

[Tarikh at Tabari, Tarikh Ibn Kathir and Tarikh Qamil by Imam Tabari, Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Ibn Athir and Ibn Jarir in Chapter Musaylima Kadhaab]
Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Tabari both write: During the Khilafah of 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with Him, there was a famine outside the city of Madinah. A companion called Bilal bin Harith al Muzni, may Allah be pleased with Him, said to his people "The famine is very severe, [let us] sacrifice a goat". Apart from a red bone nothing came from the goat [the goat was very thin due to famine and as such, there was no meat on the bones]. Bilal bin Harith, may Allah be pleased with Him, called out "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]. The Messenger of Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), then appeared in the dream of Bilal bin Harith and informed him that there will be rain.

[Tarikh Ibn Kathir and Ibn Jarir chapter of khilafah of 'Umar (May Allah be pleased with Him]
Imam Ibn Sa'ad writes: After the Messenger of Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), had passed away, Arwa bint 'Abd al Muttalib, May Allah be well pleased with her, recited the: "Ya Rasul Allah! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]. You were our place of hope."

[Imam Ibn Sa'ad, Tabaqat Ibn Sa'ad, chapter on the Death of the Prophet]

9.30 pm, Friday, 4.20.07 . The rants of two wahabis. Sayid_Al_Farsi at his best(Discontented with his defeat by Dr. Onomatopoeia). By the way, Dr. Onomatopoeia is not an actual doctor. It is just a paltalk handle.


Dr Onomatopoeia: brother Sayed is here
Sayed_Al_Farsi: yes Dr , you have been exposed Alhamdulilah
Dr Onomatopoeia: o.O
Shugriya3: ATTACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Dr Onomatopoeia: hamadulillah
Dr Onomatopoeia:
Dr Onomatopoeia: lolll@Mic
Shugriya3: ATTACK CAREBAEAR
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: sister please do not laugh or giggle on mic.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: Fear Allah
Shugriya3: LOL
Dr Onomatopoeia: lol CJ
Dr Onomatopoeia: lolll
Dr Onomatopoeia: masha'Allah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: carebear ... "Dr" here claims it is OK to call upon saints for intercession, which would make him a Mushrik !
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ... what are you a pHD in anyway ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: a robust claim
ISLAM becoms 1st religion: ws wr ALLAH wb
Shugriya3: sayed ur back again
carebear76: huh
Paltalk: Upgrade Now -- Get unlimited video all the time!
carebear76: wait what?
carebear76: what do u mean
carebear76: calling on live saints for intersession?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... even if you DOUBT that calling upon dead saints is not Shirk, you become a Mushrik
Sayed_Al_Farsi: hahaha ... sure they did
carebear76: oh dear....
Sayed_Al_Farsi: According to your Fabricated Ahadeeth , which have ridiculuous chains
carebear76: well i have 2 go get my kids ready 4 school
carebear76: {}(afk){}
Sayed_Al_Farsi: many of the narrators unkown to the Sahaba and Tabieen
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... do you have the Hadeeth book in front of you ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: or are you a Google Suffi hehe
abdulhameed_norwood: yaa dr what u callin the ppl towards??
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... are you follower of Hisham Kabbani ?
abdulhameed_norwood: soofeeyya is a deviant sect, which all scholars warn againts.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... do you regard Hisham Kabbani as a "true" scholar ?
abdulhameed_norwood: no, the sect has a corrupt aqeeda
abdulhameed_norwood: dont be fast in saying things are lies, with out knowledge
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... do you have books of Imam Tabarani and Al-Bayhaqi with you ?
abdulhameed_norwood: in fact, my local masjid for more than 6years was a soofee masjid,
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... ahh , you have access, I see
Shugriya3: sayed al farsi were u from?
abdulhameed_norwood: they followed naqshbandi tareeqa, they blind follow there shaykh
Shugriya3: nationalitywise
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Iam not here to debate your fabricated Ahadeeth
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Iam just here to tell you, you are not welcome in our rooms anymore
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Allah(swt) guide you ... ameen
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Listen to chanting and raving of Dr's Ameer and Shaykh , Kabbani http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4jaAA37ZUA
Shugriya3: brb
Sayed_Al_Farsi: this is what Dr does
abdulhameed_norwood: Sayed leave this room, it seems as though they are trying to thrive on ppl like us giving them attention which they dont deserve!
Sayed_Al_Farsi: he is young , and ignorant
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... how old are you , 16 ?
abdulhameed_norwood: its obvious they follow there shoyukh more than the aathar, they are known for that
abdulhameed_norwood: assalamu alaikum
Sayed_Al_Farsi: a Dr at 16 ? masha'Allah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: abdulhameed ... be aware , this is deviant suffi mystic room
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: According to his profile, he claims to be 20 and yet he said he majored in English lit.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: how did you majored in Eng LIt at 19?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: loooooooool
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: hang on, you told us you majored (pasttense)
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... why are you telling people you have a pHD in Islamic Studies ?
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: We seen you when you were servant
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: your previous nic
Sayed_Al_Farsi: stop lying to people to decieve them
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: and when you were on Yahoo
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: yes you did many times.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: you said major'd.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: well Dr..
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: you never said you are an under graduated.
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Just came to inform you, you are not welcome in our rooms, please do not cause disunity in we are here for Dawa ...keep your Bida in this room
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: you proceeded to call your Dr too
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Allah(swt) guide you ... Ameen
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lol
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: Bro Sayed he is exposed.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lets leave him to his majoring
Sayed_Al_Farsi: CJ ... Alhamdulilah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: loooooooooool

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary

Sayed_Al-Farsi began by vilifying my paltalk handle "Dr Onomatopoeia" which he never did before I started exposing wahabism over paltalk. Such hypocrisy is a trademark of salafism. I have never by Allah claimed to have taken a PhD, regardless what my nick name says. I've always informed people(Sayed_Al_Farsi included) that it is simply a paltalk handle and that I haven't even finished my degree in English. Instead of dealing with the issues that Sayed vehemently disagree with and misunderstand such as tawassul, he resorts to ad hominem which is a discourse fallacy. I was on the mic explaining things to him and asking him if he would like to discuss the ahadith in question. Instead of conceding and discussing it in a friendly manner, he simply said and I quote,
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... even if you DOUBT that calling upon dead saints is not Shirk, you become a Mushrik
Sayed_Al_Farsi: hahaha ... sure they did
Sayed_Al_Farsi: According to your Fabricated Ahadeeth , which have ridiculuous chains
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Iam not here to debate your fabricated Ahadeeth
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Iam just here to tell you, you are not welcome in our rooms anymore

Here is a link that provides the ahadith in question and a thorough analysis of them:
http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogspot.com/2005/11/hadith-proofs-for-tawassul.html

The reader may decide who's telling the truth and who isn't.

Once again...instead of discussing the issue like a matured thinking man, he behaved childish like :

Sayed_Al_Farsi: he is young , and ignorant
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... how old are you , 16 ?

Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... why are you telling people you have a pHD in Islamic Studies ?
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: We seen you when you were servant
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: your previous nic
Sayed_Al_Farsi: stop lying to people to decieve them

That is yet another lie from this wahabi. I have never ever claimed to own a PhD in Islamic Studies.

He then went on to say :

Sayed_Al_Farsi: Dr ... Just came to inform you, you are not welcome in our rooms, please do not cause disunity in we are here for Dawa ...keep your Bida in this room

He's here for da'wah? Rejecting authentic sunnah and vilifying them and ridiculing a fellow brother is Da'wah? who's teaching is this, I wonder?

Before he left, he said :

CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lol
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: Bro Sayed he is exposed.
CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ-CJ: lets leave him to his majoring
Sayed_Al_Farsi: CJ ... Alhamdulilah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: loooooooooool

What have i been exposed of? I do not understand how Sayed would tag team with CJ who told me he's not Muslim against a fellow Muslim. Amazing how these wahabis behave....May Allah guide us all. Ameen.

------------------------------

If you notice another wahabi was also in the room, "abdulhameed_norwood" .

I will only deal with one thing he said. It will be sufficient. He said :

abdulhameed_norwood: soofeeyya is a deviant sect, which all scholars warn againts.

abdulhameed_norwood: no, the sect has a corrupt aqeeda
abdulhameed_norwood: dont be fast in saying things are lies, with out knowledge

Don't say things without knowledge? Who is saying things without knowledge? This person alleged that sufism is a deviant sect and ALL scholars warn against it. Let us see if he is being truthful or if he has any knowledge about the matter.

Here are some statements by great scholars of Islam :

Imam Abu Hanifa (85 H. - 150 H)
"If it were not for two years, I would have perished." He said, "for two years I accompanied Sayyidina Ja'far as-Sadiq and I acquired the spiritual knowledge that made me a gnostic in the Way."
[Ad-Durr al-Mukhtar, vol 1. p. 43]

Imam Malik (95 H. - 179 H.)
"whoever studies Jurisprudence [tafaqaha] and didn't study Sufism [tasawwaf] will be corrupted; and whoever studied Sufism and didn't study Jurisprudence will become a heretic; and whoever combined both will reach the Truth."
['Ali al-Adawi , vol. 2, p 195.]

Imam Shafi'i (150 - 205 AH.)
"I accompanied the Sufi people and I received from them three knowledges: ...how to speak; how to treat people with leniency and a soft heart... and they... guided me in the ways of Sufism."
[Kashf al-Khafa, 'Ajluni, vol. 1, p 341.]

Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (164 - 241 AH.)
"O my son, you have to sit with the People of Sufism, because they are like a fountain of knowledge and they keep the Remembrance of Allah in their hearts. they are the ascetics and they have the most spiritual power."
[Tanwir al-Qulub p. 405]

Imam Ghazzali (450 - 505 AH.)
"I knew verily that Sufis are the seekers in Allah's Way, and their conduct is the best conduct, and their way is the best way, and their manners are the most sanctified. They have cleaned their hearts from other than Allah and they have made them as pathways for rivers to run receiving knowledge of the Divine Presence."
[al-Munqidh, p. 131].

Fakhr ad-Din ar-Razi (544 - 606 AH)
"The way of Sufis for seeking Knowledge, is to disconnect themselves from this worldly life, and they keep themselves constantly busy with Dhikrullah, in all their actions and behaviors."
['Itiqadaat Furaq al-Muslimeen, p. 72, 73]

Imam Nawawi (620 - 676 AH.)
"The specifications of the Way of the Sufis are ... to keep the Presence of Allah in your heart in public and in private; to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) ... to be happy with what Allah gave you..."
[in his Letters, (Maqasid at-tawhid), p. 20]

Ibn Taymiyya (661 - 728 AH)
"Tasawwuf has realities and states of experience which they talk about in their science. Some of it is that the Sufi is that one who purifies himself from anything which distracts him from the remembrance of Allah and who will be so filled up with knowledge of the heart and knowledge of the mind to the point that the value of gold and stones will be the same to him. And Tasawwuf is safeguarding the precious meanings and leaving behind the call to fame and vanity in order to reach the state of Truthfulness, because the best of humans after the prophets are the Siddiqeen, as Allah mentioned them in the verse:
"(And all who obey Allah and the Apostle) are in the company of those on whom is the grace of Allah: of the prophets, the sincere lovers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous; Ah! what a beautiful fellowship." (an-Nisa', 69,70)
"...some people criticised Sufiyya and Tasawwuf and they said they were innovators, out of the Sunnah, but the truth is they are striving in Allah's obedience [mujtahidin fi ta'at-illahi], as others of Allah's People strove in Allah's obedience. So from them you will find the Foremost in Nearness by virtue of his striving [as-saabiq ul-muqarrab bi hasab ijtihadihi]. And some of them are from the People of the Right hand [Ahl al-Yameen mentioned in Qur'an in Sura Waqi'ah], but slower in their progress.... And this is the origin of Tasawwuf. And after that origin, it has been spread and [tasha'abat wa tanawa'at] has its main line and its branches.
[Majmu'a Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya al-Kubra, Vol. 11, Book of Tasawwuf, p. 497].
"The miracles of saints are absolutely true and correct, by the acceptance of all Muslim scholars. And the Qur'an has pointed to it in different places, and the Hadith of the Prophet (s) has mentioned it, and whoever denies the miraculous power of saints are only people who are innovators and their followers." [al-Mukhtasar al-Fatawa, page 603]. Ibn Taymiyya says, "what is considered as a miracle for a saint is that sometimes the saint might hear something that others do not hear and they might see something that others do not see, while not in a sleeping state, but in a wakened state of vision. And he can know something that others cannot know, through revelation or inspiration."
[Majmu'a Fatawi Ibn Taymiyya, Vol. 11, p. 314].

Ibn Khaldun (733 - 808 AH.)
"The way of the Sufis is the way of the Salaf, the preceding Scholars between the Sahaba and Tabi'een of those who followed good guidance..."
[Muqaddimat ibn al-Khaldun, p. 328]

Tajuddin as-Subki (727 - 771 AH.)
"May Allah praise them [the Sufis] and greet them and may Allah cause us to be with them in Paradise. Too many things havebeen said about them and too many ignorant people have said things which are not related to them. And the truth is that those people left the world and were busy with worship. ...They are the People of Allah, whose supplications and prayer Allah accepts and by means of whom Allah supports human beings"
[Mu'eed an-Na'am p. 190, the chapter entitled Tasawwuf]

Jalaluddin as-Suyuti (849 - 911 AH.)
"At-Tasawwuf in itself is the best and most honorable knowledge. It explains how to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and to put aside innovation."
[Ta'yid al-Haqiqat al-'Aliyya,p 57]

Ibn Qayyim (691 - 751 AH.)
"We can witness the greatness of the People of Sufism, in the eyes of the earliest generations of Muslims by what has been mentioned by Sufyan ath-Thawri (d. 161 AH), one of the greatest imams of the second century and one of the foremost legal scholars. He said, "If it had not been for Abu Hisham as-Sufi (d. 115) I would never have perceived the action of the subtlest forms of hypocrisy in the self... Among the best of people is the Sufi learned in jurisprudence."
[Manazil as-Sa'ireen.]

Abdullah ibn Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab (1115 - 1201 AH.)
"My father Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab and I do not deny or criticize the science of Sufism, but on the contrary we support it, because it purifies the external and the internal of the hidden sins, which are related to the heart and to the outward form. Even though the individual might externally be on the right way, internally he might be on the wrong way. Sufism is necessary to correct it."
[ad-Dia'at mukathaffa did ash-shaykh ibn Abdul Wahhab, p. 85]

Ibn 'Abidin (1198 - 1252 AH.)
"The Seekers in this Sufi Way don't hear except from the Divine Presence and they don't love any but Him. If they remember Him they cry, and if they thank Him they are happy; ... May Allah bless them."
[Risa'il Ibn 'Abidin p. 172 & 173]

Muhammad 'Abduh (1265 - 1323 AH.)
"Tasawwuf appeared in the first century of Islam and it received a tremendous honor. It purified the self and straightened the conduct and gave knowledge to people from the Wisdom and Secrets of the Divine Presence."
[Majallat al-Muslim, 6th ed. 1378 H, p. 24].

Maulana Abul Hasan 'Ali an-Nadawi (1331 AH b.)
"These Sufis were initiating people on Oneness and sincerity in following the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) and to repent from their sins and to be away from every disobedience of Allah 'Azza wa Jall. Their guides were encouraging them to move in the way of perfect Love to Allah 'Azza wa Jall.
"...In Calcutta India, everyday more than 1000 people were taking initiation into Sufism. "...by the influence of these Sufi people, thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands in India found their Lord and reached a state of Perfection through the Islamic religion."
[Muslims in India, p. 140-146]
Maulana Abul 'Ala Maudoodi (1321 - 1399 AH.)
"Sufism is a reality whose signs are the love of Allah and the love of the Prophet (saw), where one absents oneself for their sake, and one is annihilated from anything other than them, and it is to know how to follow the footsteps of the Prophet (s). ..Tasawwuf searched for the sincerity in the heart and the purity in the intention and the trustworthiness in obedience in an individual's actions."
"The Divine Law and Sufism: "Sufism and Shariah: what is the similitude of the two? They are like the body and the soul. The body is the external knowledge, the Divine Law, and the spirit is the internal knowledge."
[Mabadi' al-Islam, p. 17]

Speaking without knowledge

Speaking without knowledge is a dangerous matter. Allah said in Surat al-Isra’, Ayah 36:
{æáÇ ÊóÞúÝõ ãóÇ áóíúÓó áóßó Èöåö Úöáúãñ Åöäøó ÇáÓøóãúÚó æóÇáÈóÕóÑó æóÇáÝõÄóÇÏó ßõáøõ ÃõæáóÆößó ßóÇäó Úóäúåõ ãóÓúÄõæáÇð}
which means: [Do not act or give judgments in the Religion without knowledge. On the Day of Judgment one’s ears, eyes, and heart will be asked about their deeds.]


Both at-Tirmidhiyy (in his book Al-Jami^) and the hafidh, Ibn Muhammad Ibn Abu Bakr al-Qurashiyy (in his book, As-Samt, which means "The Silence") narrated from Prophet Muhammad that he said:
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These words of the Prophet mean: This advice is important to follow because giving judgments in the Religion without knowledge is among the ways which lead a person to be a loser in the Hereafter. Indeed, this matter is among the top reasons leading people to enter Hellfire. The one who says something is "halal" (permissible) or "haram" (forbidden) in the Religion without relying on a valid religious permission to do so is sinful and deserves the severe torture in HellfireThe pious, knowledgeable people said it is a very good act for the person to say: "I do not know," when it is applicable to do so. If one does not know the religious judgment on a particular case, he should not venture his own opinion on it. Once, when Imam ^Aliyy was asked about something which he did not know, he said, "I do not know." Then he added, "How soothing it is for me to say ‘I do not know’ when I do not know." Imam ^Aliyy meant that he felt comfortable not to answer a religious question when he did not know the answer to it. We should take heed and follow the words of Imam ^Aliyy in this matter. He was one of the most honored Companions of the Prophet--known for his high level of knowledge and comprehension in the Religion.Once, when Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, was asked what the best and the worst places were, he answered:
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His words mean: "I do not know. I will ask Jibril." When the Prophet asked Jibril, Jibril also said, "I do not know." After a period of time, Jibril returned to Prophet Muhammad with the answer which Allah revealed to him: "The worst places are the markets and the best places are the mosques." This is a sahih hadith related by Imam Muslim and others.The Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, taught us a very important lesson by his response. It is not shameful for one to reply, "I do not know" when it is applicable, but it is shameful to speak about religious matters without knowledge. Only Allah knows everything. For the Muslim to be safe on the Day of Judgment, he should speak only about what he knows. If one needs an answer to a Religious question, he should ask one more knowledgeable than himself or a trustworthy Muslim who can ask another pious, knowledgeable Muslim. This is the way the knowledge of the Religion is taught, and this is the way the knowledge is preserved.


A brief exchange between Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafi'e with a wahabi extremist Abu Zaheer who declares sufism to be bid'ah and haram on 5/18/2007.

Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: This is for you brother
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: "Tasawwuf has realities and states of experience which they talk about in their science. Some of it is that the Sufi is that one who purifies himself from anything which distracts him from the remembrance of Allah and who will be so filled up with knowledge of the heart and knowledge of the mind to the point that the value of gold and stones will be the same to him. And Tasawwuf is safeguarding the precious meanings and leaving behind the call to fame and vanity in order to reach the state of Truthfulness, because the best of humans after the prophets are the Siddiqeen, as Allah mentioned them in the verse:
"(And all who obey Allah and the Apostle) are in the company of those on whom is the grace of Allah: of the prophets, the sincere lovers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous; Ah! what a beautiful fellowship." (an-Nisa', 69,70)
"...some people criticised Sufiyya and Tasawwuf and they said they were innovators, out of the Sunnah, but the truth is they are striving in Allah's obedience [mujtahidin fi ta'at-illahi], as others of Allah's People strove in Allah's obedience. So from them you will find the Foremost in Nearness by virtue of his striving [as-saabiq ul-muqarrab bi hasab ijtihadihi]. And some of them are from the People of the Right hand [Ahl al-Yameen mentioned in Qur'an in Sura Waqi'ah], but slower in their progress.... And this is the origin of Tasawwuf. And after that origin, it has been spread and [tasha'abat wa tanawa'at] has its main line and its branches.
[Majmu'a Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya al-Kubra, Vol. 11, Book of Tasawwuf, p. 497].
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: that's from ur sheikhul Islam
Abu Zaheer: May Allah swt break your back and destroy you.
Abu Zaheer: You are a liar and a deceiver
Abu Zaheer is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk.


I ask the readers. What kind of Muslim prays for the destruction of another brother who has never done the former any wrong?
Ibn Abid-Dunyia related the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, said:
"Khaslatan Ma Inna Tajammal Al-Khalanaq Bi Mithlihima husna Al-Khuluq Wa Tulu As-Samti"
which means: <> In this hadith lengthy silence means not speaking--except for what is good, such as remembering and praising Allah and teaching others what is good.