NOTICE

I do not hate nor hold any grudge on the Wahabis/Salafis as a community. The contents provided here are not meant to incite hatred for the wahabis who are Muslims(however confused they may be) but it is simply to convey the truth and expose the lies that prevail among them so as to warn others not to fall into the same mire. May Allah s.w.t. guide us all.
"ISLAM is the ONLY PATH to salvation. Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama'ah is the ONLY vehicle that may take you on that path. Tasawwuf is the engine that drives the vehicle. If you have these, you will earn Allah's pleasure, Insha'Allah." Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie

Quotable Quotes

"If the first inward thought is not warded off, it will generate a desire, then the desire will generate a wish, and the wish will generate an intention, and the intention will generate the action, and the action will result in ruin and divine wrath. So evil must be cut off at its root, which is when it is simply a thought that crosses the mind, from which all the other things follow on." (Al-Hujjatul Islam Imam Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali, Ihya' Ulum al-Deen 6/17) "If you are aware of your humility, then you are arrogant." (Ibn Ata'illah) "Never do I argue with a man with a desire to hear him say what is wrong, or to expose him and win victory over him. Whenever I face an opponent in debate I silently pray - O Lord, help him so that truth may flow from his heart and on his tongue, and so that if truth is on my side, he may follow me; and if truth be on his side, I may follow him." (Imam Al-Shafie r.a.) "Never forget that turning a blind eye to oppression and watching from the sidelines is itself oppression" (Harun Yahya) "Do not sit idle, for indeed death is seeking you' (Hasan Al-Basri)

Friday, June 8, 2007

A Conclusive Response to the Deviance of the "Salafis"

A Response to "Al-Hidaayah's"
"Spreading Mischief through the Art of Lying and Deception"


1. Introduction

This is a small response to a pamphlet that we received called "As-Sunnah Foundation.... Spreading Mischief through the Art of Lying and Deception". Even though the subjects that they bring forward have already been explained in full detail with proof from the Quran, Sunnah and `Ijma, they feel it is incumbent upon themselves to repeat their negative views that are filled with rigidity, misinterpretations and overall ignorance. If one were to read the original debate that was issued, he/she would notice that there is on need for a rebuttal because the proofs were concrete and decisive. The response comes from an organization called Al-Hidaayah Foundation in Sri Lanka from an unknown writer. The original debate was between Ismail Dhul-Qarnayn and Abdur-Raheem Green, so we must ask the question, `"why is there a third party brought into this discussion? Was it is not between two individuals?" And also we must ask, " why is it not Adbur-Raheem responding?"

Inviting a third party into the forum just makes matters even more complicated and confusing. So we are questioning the motive. Is it to cause more confusion? Is this a legitimate response? We don’t even know the response of Green because he has not responded to any of the former debate. We don’t even know the name of this writer! We don’t know the level of his scholarship, where he studied, nor from whom he studied. So we ask the readers of their debate, "How can you take this response that they are writing seriously? ".

We notice that his only attempt is to stain the creditability of the as-Sunnah Foundation of America, and he makes this attempt throughout his letter. With the Help of Allah, the writer is brought into the light so that we may all see his intentions. The writer displays his lack of coherence to the applications of Hukm in Islam throughout his mis-informed letter. This is an example of their constant refusal to acknowledge the wide permissible diversities within Islam.

2. Claims of being of the Salaf:

The concept of those who consider themselves belonging to the Salaf is a growing delusion of the modern day `Neo-Salafi `. Instead of following the Beliefs of the Salaf, they go a step forward and declare themselves Salaf and they form their belief to what is contrary to the Period of the Salaf. The writer says:

<< "The Salafi is one who committed to the understanding of Islaam from its original source: the Quran and the Sunnah and from the interpretation of the early generation of Muslims, the Companions and their followers, gave to these sources, in short understanding the Quran and the Sunnah according to the understanding of the Sahaba [ra] and their followers. So by trying to expose the Salafis what or who this organization and others like them, in reality their trying to expose……">>

In the writers footnote #2 he writes the hadith:

<< "The Prophet [saw] said, "The most excellent of Muslims is this generation and those who follow them and those who follow them." [Bukhari]>>

We of the as-Sunnah Foundation of America, as well as many other Scholars of the Jamaa`ah, would say that this hadith is the real meaning of what a Salafi truly is, not the explanation that the writer tries to put on others. A SALAFI IS ONE WHO EXISTED DURING THE FIRST GENERATIONS OF ISLAM, PERIOD. And for one to say he is one of them just because he follows them is fooling no one but himself and those who believe him. Nuh Ha Mim Keller gives a good explanation of what is a Salaf and those who claim that they are of them:

"The word salafi or "early Muslim" in traditional Islamic scholarship means someone who died within The first four hundred years after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including Scholars such as Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi'i, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Anyone who died after this is One of the khalaf or "latter-day Muslims".

The term "Salafi" was revived as a slogan and movement, among latter-day Muslims, by the followers of Muhammad Abduh (the student of Jamal al-Din al-Afghani) some thirteen centuries after the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), approximately a hundred years ago. Like similar movements that have historically appeared in Islam, its basic claim was that the religion had not been properly understood by anyone since the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and the early Muslims--and themselves."

From this explanation, we can see why in many issues of fiqh they posses an alien approach to understanding what has been taught by the earlier scholars, for example, prayer, understanding of Quran and Hadith , innovations, madh`habs etc. They label themselves as "Salafi", which is an unnecessary and an almost castrating approach in the aspect of Belief in Islam, in which the Prophet [saw] has cautioned us about. For this is their profile:

1. Their Salat does not match any of the four Madhahib of Ahl as-Sunna wal-Jama`at.

2. In particular, their raising their hands after coming up from Ruku', and crossing their arms between Ruku' and Sujud.

3. Their way of making Tashahhud by moving their fingers up and down during all the Tashahhud. Their pretension of following Sunnat-Al-Mostafa contradicts all Madhahib even though they are using the same Sunnah narrated by Ahmad: "The Prophet PBUH used to move His finger during Tashahhud!"

4. They do not raise their hands for Du`a (supplication).

5. They do not cover their heads during Salat or otherwise, even though it's known for centuries that a man who doesn't cover up his head is Makhrum Al-Muru'a (There is a "breach" in his dignity).

6. They certainly do not wear Turbans, which is a Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, of the Sahaba (raa), and the Taabi'een.

7. Their preaching is based on the premise of using Qur'an and Sunnah ONLY! Meaning that the civilization built by the Moslems for over 13 centuries is not from Qur'an and Sunnah and a return to the source is a must.

8. Among the most likely sayings they might use from the early great scholar of Islam is: "If you see anything that I say contradicting a Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH, throw what I say against the wall and use the Sunnah instead!.." These words were uttered by humble scholars who did not want to show off, but are used nowadays instead as means to bash them. They do not mention, however the fact that the same Imam who said these words also said: "If the Messenger of Allah SWT left my company even for one single night I would count myself among the hypocrites!" That was Abu-Hanifa An Nu'maan Ibn Thabit may Allah SWT be pleased with him. They also say: "They were men and we are men!..", "We know today what they did not know then!"

9. The most moderate among them are those who do not say anything Negative about the 4 imams even though they do not follow any of them in their practices. They follow their own way of learning Salat based on a Famous book: "Sifat Salaat Annabi Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam" by Nasr-Eddine Al-Albani.

10. One of their worst arguments is asking for a Daleel (Scholarly proof concerning religious matters) from Qur'an or Sunnah, which belongs to the Ulamaa (Scholars of Islam). They do not understand that Qur'an and Sunnah are the pillars on which all other Adillah (proofs) are built including Qiyas, Ijma'a, Qawl al-Sahabi, and last but not least Ma`aruf (what people of good morals have agreed upon as being a good practice).

11. For them Asha'aira are not on the right path but deviated from the "Mainstream" of Islamic `Aqidah. Even though they consist of the majority belief of the Muslims.

12. Sitting in a circle of Dhikr (remembrance) is a deadly crime against Islam. [Explained later]

13. Expanding on the attributes of Allah swt in ways that may be interpreted anthropomorphically, as saying, "He is sitting on the throne in person " and "He has two real eyes".

14. Stressing that the Prophet, salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam, is only a man like us, and avoiding praising him except for a bare minimum, and not accepting that he still plays an active role for his Ummah, to the extent of saying, "he is dead".

15. Shamelessly attacking Tasawwuf and Ahl al-Sunna scholars inspite of overwhelming evidence in their favor, even from their own Scholars they claim to follow.

If one was to see these qualities [and many others we haven’t mentioned], he would know surely that this is not the way the Early Muslims believed and for this reason their beliefs it should be shunned. Wa Allahu Alim.

3. Being accused of Gheebah:

For an unknown reason, the writer insinuates that Mr. Green is the victim of backbiting. We ask, `how is this so when Mr. Green was addressed?` It would have been different if we were writing to a third party, claiming that through Mr. Green’s speech, he is contradicting the Beliefs of the Ahl as-Sunnah wa Jama`ah, but Ismail Dhul-Qarnayn was addressing Mr. Green himself. The writer mentions a hadith:

<<< ......The Messenger of Allah [saw] said, " When I was taken up to Heaven, I passed by a people who’s nails were made of copper and were scratching their faces and breasts,` I asked Jibreel, ` who are these people Jibreel? He replied, ` they are those who eat the flesh of the people and they dishonor them.`

[then he says]

.........So we say how can this organization and others like them that are supposed to be Islamicly based , why go ahead and insult your brothers’ honor to your hearts content, backbite, slander, spread rumors, insult and criticize?>>>

We will mention again that it is Mr. Green who is addressed, openly. It was addressed in a way that he as well as others can see the mistakes that he made. It obvious that the writer doesn’t know the Hukm of Gheebah and some of the Permissibilties of Gheebah due to certain circumstances which Mr. Green qualifies for:

In the Muwatta by Imam Malik:

"Malik related to me from al-Walid ibn 'Abdullah ibn Sayyad that al-Muttalib ibn 'Abdullah ibn Hantab al-Makhzumi informed him that a man asked the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. "What is backbiting?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "It is to mention about a man what he does not want to hear." He said, "Messenger of Allah, even if it is true?" The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If you utter something false, then it is slander (buhtan).""

Imam Baji, in his great commentary of the Muwattah, "Al-Muntaqa", (which appears in the bibliography of Root Islamic Education's first edition), after specifying that warning against innovations, or against the claim of an action being related to a prophetic hadith while not being so, and similar types of verbal actions do not constitute backbiting but rather are an obligation of the amr of Allah, and a defense of His Truth. He then goes on to say:

"Isa Ibn Dinar said pertaining to backbiting: "Backbiting does not apply to three cases: An Imam who has overstepped the limits, a fasiq freely exposing his fisq, and an innovator in the deen." [Al-Muntaqa: bab Ma Ja'a Fil-Ghaybah]

And Imam Nawawi elaborates about this in his Adhkaar he says:

" Slander, though unlawful, is sometimes permissible for a lawful purpose, the legitimating factor being that their is some aim countenanced by Sacred Law that is unattainable by other means, this may be for 6 reasons:

1. Redressing Grievances
2. Eliminating Wrongdoing
3. Asking for a Legal Opinion
4. Warning Muslims of Evil
5. Someone Unconcerned with concealing their Disobedience
6. Identification

And in Warning Muslims of Evil, Imam Nawawi says:

"When someone notices a student of Sacred Knowledge going to learn from a teacher who is guilty of reprehensive innovations in religious matters, or who is corrupt, and one apprehends harm the student thereby, one must advise him and explain how the teacher really is. It is necessary in such a case that one attends to give sincere counsel. Mistakes are sometimes made in this, as the person warning the other may be motivated by envy, which the Devil has duped him into believing is heartfelt advice and compassion , so one must be aware of this."

Imam Nawawi continues, "... And when there is someone in a position of responsibility who is not doing the job as it should be done , because of being unfit for it, corrupt, inattentive or the like, one must mention this to the person with authority over him so he can remove him and find another to do the job properly, or be aware of how he is so as to deal with him as he should be dealt with and not be deluded by him, to urge him to either improve or else be replaced."

So, if the writer wants to entertain the thought that we were backbiting Mr. Green, he may consider the above advice from `Ulama mentioned above. It is clear that Mr. Green mentioned in his speech a number of things that are contrary to the Beliefs of the Ahl as-Sunnah wa Jamaa`ah and this is what we confronted Mr. Green with. He nor anyone else is free from criticism or correction, as long as mistakes like the ones he made that are being taught, spoken or written about. This is where we stand.

Wa Allahu Alim.

3. Kullu Bid`ah :

Though this topic has been dealt with in full detail, the writer decides to revert to this topic as though it was never discussed in the original debate. This is a clear trick of deception indeed! It would be better for the reader of this pamphlet to first refer to the original debate and he will see that there is no need or any justification for the writer to dig this discussion up, and to do it is clearly an attempt to dissuade the innocent-minded folk from an objective choice in the mattter. The writer says:

<>

To this we say, "Al-HamduliLLah , Allah didn’t leave the Religion of Islam to be explained by six year old children studying Arabic," and that He left us the ` Ulama to explain to us our religion, which the Prophet [saw] advised us to obey. Clearly the writer is not aware about the Traditions/Hadiths or the saying from the `Ulama that refers to Innovations. For the Prophet [saw] said:

"Whoever introduces in Islam a good measure, will have his reward for it and also a reward of those who act upon it without reducing anything from his reward....." [Muslim]

And for the second time we would like to shed light upon this with the explanation of the Scholars whom the `Salafis` themselves claim to follow. So that the writer can weigh his words against these so that he may correct himself and the reader, insha-Allah, may know the conditions concerning innovation so that he may teach it to those who don’t know. For what better explanation we can get about what the Prophet [saw] said about innovation than these Scholars:

The scholar, the one of a kind in his time, the authority of his age, The commentator of Sahih Muslim, Al Hafiz Al Nawawi, May Allah be pleased With him, said in Sahih Muslim, (6-21): ((the Prophet's (s) saying Kullu bid'a (every bid'a) is a general- particular (`am makhsoos) and it is a reference to most of the bida' (innovations). The linguists say : It (bid'a) is any act done without a previous pattern, and it is of five different kinds.

He also said in Tahzeeb al Asma' wal Sifaat : Bid'a in Shari'a is originating any thing which did not exist during the time of the Prophet (s), and it is divided into good and bad. He also said: Al Muhdathat [plural of Muhdatha]- is originating something that has no roots in Shari'a, in the tradition of Shari'a it's called Bid'a, and if it has an origin within the Shari'a ,then it is not bid'a, Bid'a in shari'a - is disagreeable, unlike in the language where every thing that has been originated without a previous pattern is called bid'a regardless if it is good or bad.

2. Ameer al Mo'mineen fil Hadith (the leader of believers in Hadith) Al-Hafiz, Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, the commentator on Al Bukhari, whose been agreed upon his high prestige said, "Any thing that did not exist during his (Rasulullah’s (s)) time is called Bid'a, but some are Hasan (good) while others are not. "

3. Abu Na'eem narrated from Ibrahim Al Junaid said: I heard Al Shafi'i saying: Bid'a is two (kinds) a praiseworthy (mahmooda) bid'a and a blameworthy (madhmooma) bid'a, and any thing that disagrees with the Sunna is Mazmoom.

Al Imam Al Bayhaqi narrated in Manaqib Al Shafi`i may Allah be pleased with him that he said: Al Muhdathat ( innovations) are two kinds, what contradicts the Book, the sunna, the Athar ( transmission) or ijma' (unanimous agreement) is a Bid'a of deception, while a good innovation does not contradict with any of these things.

4. Sultan al Ulema' Al Izz bin Abdussalam, may Allah be pleased with him said, at the end of his book (Al Qawa'id): ((Bid'a is divided into, Wajiba (obligatory), Muharrama (forbidden), Mandooba (recommended), Makrooha (disagreeable), and Mubaha,(permissible), and the way to know which is which is to match it against the Shari'a, if it falls into the category of Ijab (obligation) it is wajiba, or Tahrim (forbidden) it is muharrama, or Nadb (recommendation) it is manduba, or Makrooh (disagreeable) it is makrooha,or Mubah (permission) it is mubaha.))

The writer continues...<< Of course the word innovation used in this and other ahadith refer to the innovations in the Religion , and not outside of it, this is clearly seen and understood from the following hadith , in which the Prophet [saw] said, " Whoever innovates into this affair of ours, something we have not commanded, is to be rejected............ >>

These hadiths can be found easily in Riyadhis-Saaliheen and if he was to turn the page just once he will find the hadith [the first one] stated above in the chapter "Inventing New Ways of Virtue and Vice" that "Whoever introduces in Islam a good measure, will have his reward for it and also a reward of those who act upon it without reducing anything from his reward". The writer is providing an example for us of how one who doesn’t have the Knowledge or the Hukm of a certain Science, can interpret sayings out of context with irrelevant meanings and childish conclusions.

In the book Takhlees l-Ikhwaan it is mentioned," So take notice, may Allah be Merciful to you, of the divisions of innovation and preserve them carefully in your memory that you may realize not every innovation is objectionable. There are those which are highly recommended in which there is reward for it. There are those who are allowed, in which there is there is neither reward nor punishment. Then there are those which are obligatory in which there is a reward for discharging it and punishment for it being neglected. There are those which are reprehensible in which there is a reward for leaving it and there is no punishment for doing it.

"O my Brother--may Allah guide you--be in opposition to heretical innovation and make a distinction between what which is abominable [in order to object to it] and between what is approved [in order not to object to it] . This is so that you may be safe with your Lord from being associated with objectionable things by only objecting to that which is clearly objectionable. For whoever objects to that which is not permissible to object to, it is as though he had done the same thing objectionable thing act he was attempting to prohibit or even worse. For this reason have tried to relate in this book the differences of opinion in order that you may avoid objecting to that which there is a difference of opinion.

Ibn Abdus-Salam said, Among these innovations are those which are obligatory like the preliminary sciences to understanding the Book of Allah and the sunnah of His Messenger- such as grammar , eloquence and the like. This is because the preservation of the Shari`ah cannot be achieved except by these........."

So now we would like to mention some of the innovations that are in the Religion that is accepted , which is contrary to the belief of the writer. And with this, the reader will grasp a firm understanding of the Scope of Accepted Innovations:

1.'Ilm an-Nahu – Science of Grammar
2.'Ilm al-'Ajaaz – Science of Miraculous Exposition of Quran
3.'Ilm ul-Kalam – Science of Philosophy of Islam
4.'Ilm at-Tawhid – Science of Unity
5.'Ilm al-'Aqida – Science of Doctrine
6.'Ilm al-Qur'an – Science of the Quran
7.'Ilm al-Fiqh – Science of Jurisprudence
8.'Ilm al-Hadith – Science of Prophetic Narrations
9.'Ilm as-Sirah – Science of the Life of the Prophet (s)
10.'Ilm as-Sarf
11.'Ilm al-Bayan
12.'Ilm at-Tafsir – Science of Explanation of the Quran
13.'Ilm al-Tajweed – Science of Melodious Recitation of the Quran
14.'Ilm at-Tarteel – Science of Rapid Recitation of Quran
15.'Ilm at-Tasawwuf ('Ilm ul-Ihsan) – Science of Purification of the Self
16.'Ilm ul-Mirath – Science of Testaments and many other sciences ('Ulum), all of which came from the Holy Qur'an and the hadith of the Prophet (s).

And some of the examples of the Sahaba:

Compiling the Qu’ran. (From a Prophetic saying related by Zaid Ibn Thabit.®) "The Prophet died and the Qu’ran had not been compiled anywhere. `Umar ® suggested to Abu Bakr ® to compile the Qu’ran in one book. When a large number of Companions were killed in the battle of Yamama, Abu Bakr wondered, ‘How could we do something that the Prophet did not do?’ `Umar said, ‘By Allah, it is good.’ `Umar persisted in asking Abu Bakr until Allah expanded his chest for it (Allah made him agree and accept these suggestions) and he sent for Zaid Ibn Thabit and assigned him to compile the Qu’ran." Zaid said, "By Allah if they had asked me to move a mountain, it would not have been more difficult than to compile the Qur’an." He also said, "How could you do something that the Prophet did not do?" Abu Bakr said, "It is good, and `Umar kept coming back to me until Allah expanded my chest for the matter." The saying is narrated in Sahih Al Bukhari.

The Maqam of Ibrahim (as) in relation to the Ka’ba. (Al Bayhaqi narrated with a strong chain of narrators from Aisha.) "The Maqam during the time of the Prophet and Abu Bakr was attached to the House, then `Umar moved it back." Al Hafiz Ibn Hajar said in Al Fath, "The Companions did not oppose `Umar, neither did those who came after them, thus it became unanimous agreement." He was the first to build the enclosure (maqsura) on it, which still exists today.

Adding the first call to prayer on Friday. (From Sahih Al Bukhari, from Al Sa'ib bin Yazid.) "During the time of the Prophet (s), Abu Bakr ® and `Umar ®, the call to Friday prayer used to occur when the Imam sat on the pulpit. When it was Othman's ® time, he added the third call (considered third in relation to the first adhan and the iqama. But it is named first because it proceeds the call to the Friday prayer.)"

Salutations on the Prophet composed and taught by our Master `Ali ®. The salutations have been mentioned by Sa’id bin Mansoor and Ibn Jareer in Tahzeeb al Aathar, and by Ibn Abi Assim and Ya'qoob bin Shaiba in Akhbar `Ali and by Al Tabarani and others from Salamah Al Kindi.

The addition to the tashahhud by Ibn Mas’ud. After "wa rahmatulahi wa barakatu," and the Mercy of Allah and Blessings, he used to say, "assalamu `alayna min Rabbina," peace upon us from our Lord. Narrated by Al Tabarani in Al Kabir, and the narrators are those of the sound transmitters, as it has been mentioned in Majma' Al Zawa'id.

The addition to the tashahhud by Abdullah Ibn `Umar. He added the basmalah at the beginning of the tashahhud. He also added to the talbia, "labbaika wa sa'daika wal khayru bi yadayka wal raghba'u ilayika wal `amalu" This is mentioned in Bukhari, Muslim, et al.

These are some of the developments instituted by the Prophet’s Companions, the scholars, and the honorable members of his nation, which did not exist during the time of the Prophet, and which they deemed good. Are they, then, misguided and guilty of bad innovation?

So we ask the writer, " Is it that your understanding of the Scope of Innovation is far superior to those Scholars whom we have mentioned, that we should leave their interpretations and follow your understanding of it? For these Scholars that we have mentioned, are the exact Scholars that the modern-day "Salafis" love to claim that they follow: the Salaf. If you follow them (the Salaf), you must also agree what light they have shed regarding something they have knowledge of. So the reader is a witness to this and he will see either :

the "Salafis" will realize their mistake is their interpretation of Kullu Bid`ah and submit to the source that the Scholars issue regarding innovation. Or……

through the arrogance of hating to admit he is wrong, he [the writer and those who follow him] will cling to his own meaning of innovation, because their own Scholars confirm what has been noted from us.

Or they will keep quite as though this was never discussed.

4. Their Staunch Rejection on doing Dhikr Aloud:

In this chapter, they claim that we have lied about brother Green’s comment on Dhikr with the tongue, he says on the Charter [when we said],`Green contends that there is no Dhikr by the Tongue` and his comments are:

<< This is a evil and vile accusation against Brother Abdur-Rahman never did he say this , the reader is advised to obtain the audio tape entitled `DhikruLLah, by Abdur-Rahman and listen to it completely , no where will one find Abdur-Rahman saying that there is no Dhikr of the tongue, but if by Dhikr of the tongue it is by making Dhikr audibly then this is not allowed according to the authentic Hadeeth found in both Saheeh Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim, it is reported that once when the Sahabah [ra] were saying Allahu Akbar loudly , upon hearing this the Messenger of Allah [saw[ said, "O People, Be kind to yourselves , for you are not calling upon a deaf or absent one , but you are calling upon an All-Hearer and Seer" [then he says]……..This hadeeth provides sufficient proof to any Muslim desiring to seek the truth in this regard to stop making Dhikr audibly. Allah also said in the Noble Quran:

"And Remember your Lord by your tongue and within yourself, humbly and with fear and without loudness in words in the mornings and in the afternoons and be not of those who are neglectful" [ Soorah Al-Araf ,205]>>

We can’t help but notice that the topic of this subject in the original debate was addressing Dhikr with the Tongue Aloud, not just Dhikr with the Tongue and if the writer would have read the our response, he would know what was being addressed. But the writer is saying that we are lying about the accusation and then he goes on to ‘prove’ that Dhikr Audibly is not allowed? Why is he trying to prove a point that he said did not exist! The reader should obtain for himself the original debate, because Dhikr Aloud is what was addressed, not just the saying that `Abdur-Raheem says there is on Dhikr with the Tongue`. For us , Dhikr with the tongue and Audibly are the same, and the proofs were given in the original debate. The writer cannot find it within himself to admit that fact.

1.Uqba ibn `Amir said, "The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said of a man named Dhu al-bijadayn: innahu awwah, He is a man who says ‘ah’ a lot. This is because he was a man abundant in his dhikr of Allah in Qur'an-recitation, and he would raise his voice high when supplicating." [Ahmad in his Musnad]

2. Allah said of the Prophet Ibrahim: "Verily, Ibrahim is awwah and halim" (9:114, 11:75), that is, according to Tafsir al-jalalayn: "Crying out and suffering much, out of fear and dread of his Lord." [halim = merciful, gentle.] The Prophet prayed to be awwah in the following invocation: rabbi ij`alni ilayka awwahan, "O Allah, make me one who often cries out ah to you." [Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah , and Ahmad ]

3. The Prophet used to supplicate thus: "O my Lord! help me and do not cause me to face difficulty; grant me victory and do not grant anyone victory over me; devise for me and not against me; guide me and facilitate guidance for me; make me overcome whoever rebels against me; O my Lord! make me abundantly thankful to You (shakkaran laka), abundantly mindful of You (dhakkaran laka), abundantly devoted to

You (rahhaban laka), perfectly obedient to You (mitwa`an ilayka), lowly and humble before You (mukhbitan laka), always crying out and turning back to You (awwahan muniban)!...."

Many proofs were given about Dhikr with the Tongue in the former debate and we feel there is not need to go any further about this discussion in this response. For it is clear the writer only intends plain deception. The way he refutes Dhikr Audibly is to mention only what he believes and making the reader believes that it is the writer only that has proofs. Because the writer is not listing our opinions so that it could be weighted against his. And we would like to REPEAT the following hadith and the meaning of it. This can be found in the former debate and the reader will notice that there wasn’t any reason to open this discussion again, as the writer felt to compelled to do:

In Bukhari and Muslim: The Prophet said that Allah has angels roaming the roads to find the people of dhikr, i.e. those who say La Ilaha Illallah and similar expressions, and when they find a group of people (qawm) reciting dhikr, they call each other and encompass them in layers until the first heaven -- the location of which is in Allah's knowledge. (This is to say, an unlimited number of angels are going to be over that group. He didn't say: "when they find one person." Therefore it is a must to be in a group to get this particular reward.) Allah asks His angels, and He knows already (but he asks in order to assure it and make it understandable for us) "What are my servants saying?" (He did not say "servant," but `ibadi, "servants" in the plural.) The angels say: "They are praising You (tasbih) and magnifying Your Name (takbir) and glorifying You (tahmid), and giving You the best Attributes (tamjid)." (Can you say that all this is a lecture or a study group?

Can you say that this is silent? Rather, this is saying "Alhamdulillah" and all kinds of other dhikr.) Allah says: "Have they seen Me?" The angels answer: "O our Lord! They did not see You." He says: "(They are praising Me without seeing Me,) what if they see Me!" The angels answer: "O our Lord, if they saw You, they are going to do more and more worship, more and more tasbih, more and more takbir, more and more tamjid!" He says: "What are they asking?" Angels say: "They are asking Your Paradise!" He says: "Did they see Paradise?" They say: "O our Lord, no, they have not seen it." He says: "And how will they be if they see it?" They say: "If they see Paradise, they are going to be more attached and attracted to it!" He says: "What are they fearing and running away from?" (When we are saying, "Ya Ghaffar (O Forgiver), Ya Sattar (O Concealer)," it means that we are fearing Him because of our sins. We are asking Him to hide our sins and forgive us.) They say: "They are fearing and running away from hellfire." He says: "And have they seen hellfire?" They say: "O our Lord, no, they did not see hellfire." He says: "And how will they be if they see fire and hell?" They say: "If they see your fire, they are going to be running from it more and more, and be even more afraid of it." (Now listen to this carefully:) And Allah says: "I am making you witness (and does Allah need witnesses? He needs no witness since He said: "Allah is sufficient as witness." Why make the angels witnesses? Does Allah change His word? "Making you witness" here means, "Assuring you") that I have forgiven them." (Why has Allah forgiven them? Because, as the beginning of the hadith states, they are a group of people reciting the Names of Allah and remembering Him with His dhikr.) One of the angels says: "O my Lord, someone was there who did not belong to that group, but came for some other need." (That person came for some other purpose than dhikr, to ask someone for something.) Allah says: "Those are such a group that anyone who sits with them -- no matter for what reason -- that person will also have his sins forgiven."

The late Imam Ahmad Mashhur al-Haddad (d. 1416/1995) said in his book Miftah al-janna (cf. trans. Mostafa Badawi, Key to the Garden, Quilliam Press p. 107-108): This hadith indicates what merit lies in gathering for dhikr, and in everyone present doing it aloud and in unison, because of the phrases: "They are invoking You" in the plural, and "They are the people who sit," meaning those who assemble for remembrance and do it in unison, something which can only be done aloud, since someone whose dhikr is silent has no need to seek out a session in someone else's company.

This is further indicated by the hadith qudsi which runs: "Allah says: I am to my servant as he expects of Me, I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers Me in his heart, I remember him to Myself, and if he remembers me in an assembly, I mention him in an assembly betterthan his..." (Bukhari and Muslim) Thus, silent dhikr is differentiated from dhikr said out loud by His saying: "remembers Me within himself," meaning: "silently," and "in an assembly," meaning "aloud."

Dhikr in a gathering can only be done aloud and in unison. The above hadith thus constitutes proof that dhikr done out loud in a gathering is an exalted kind of dhikr which is mentioned at the Highest Assembly (al-mala' al-a`la) by our Majestic Lord and the angels who are near to Him, "who extol Him night and day, and never tire" (21:20). The affinity is clearly evident between those who do dhikr in the transcendent world, who have been created with an inherently obedient and remembering nature, namely the angels, and those who do dhikr in the dense world, whose natures contain lassitude and distraction; namely, human beings. The reward of the latter for their dhikr is that they be elevated to a rank similar to that of the Highest Assembly, which is sufficient honor and favor for anyone.

And with this, we would like to end with the opinion of Ibn Taymiyya on meetings of dhikr. In his book Majmu`at fatawa:

Ibn Taymiyya was asked about people that gather in a masjid making dhikr and reading Qur'an, praying to Allah and taking their turbans off their heads (leaving their heads bare) and crying, while their intention is not pride nor showing off but seeking to draw closer to Allah: is it acceptable or not? He answered: "Praise to Allah, it is good and recommended according to Shari`a (mustahabb) to come together for reading Qur'an, making dhikr, and making du`a'." wa Allahu Alim.

5. Movement in Dhikr

This is another claim that the writer felt it was necessary to claim that we meant deception. For by now the reader can see from the former chapters their deceptions in their clear contradictions, and this chapter is no different. In this chapter, the writer says Br. Abdur-Rahman Green did not mention Movement in Dhikr, but then the writer goes on to state that :

<< " See how evil is the accusation as regards to Bro. Adbur-Rahman Green saying that no movement during Dhikr is allowed, the he clearly explains in the same lecture to mean INNOVATIVE PRACTICES AMONG THE SUFIS, WHERE THE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND START DANCING AND SWAYING AND TURNING AROUND IN CIRCLES WHILE DOING DHIKR……….">>

If one was to read our response to this, he would clearly see what was our aim about certain practices of Dhikr. In the last debate we said,

The Meaning of Group Dhikr:

The writer displays his complete avoidance of the reply that we have issued. And it is clear, that if he would have faced the earlier debate with an open heart free and an objective mind set, a lot of time could have been saved from responding to subjects that were already discussed. The writer says that we have wronged brother Green. Green by implying that he said that the only Dhikr is a group where knowledge is being taught:

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The writer must be considering that no one read the first debate. Because not only do we recognize this saying of Imam Qurturbi, we noted that Bro. Green only quoted Imam Qurtubi. This was our last reply to the speech quoting the saying of the Imam Qurtubi:

[Bro. Green said] <>

[our response was] "We ask Mr. Green this question, do the Angels gather around the Throne and give speeches or do they Give Dhikr? When the Prophet (saw) lifted the veil for the Companions to hear the pebbles making Dhikr, did they hear a speech, or did they hear Dhikr? Did not Allah inform us that All of Creation does their own form of Dhikr, but we are not aware of it? And if one is sitting alone say 'Allah , Allah' and someone comes and joins him, is this aloud? Are the other Creations of Allah allowed to do Dhikr in a Gathering and His (swt) best of creation are forbidden to do so? We seek refuge in Allah from such ignorance.

This saying by Imaam Al-Kurtubi doesn't apply in any way that the only type of group Dhikr is the place where knowledge is discussed. We say, that Dhikr has many meaning, from Recitation of the Qur’an, Prayer and etc., and we don't put limits in it."

So we ask the reader and the unknown writer, "Where in this reply did we say that the meaning was exclusively Br. Green’s?" We stated who said it and where it came from and from this proof, the writer must admit that his only intent is to attempt to stain the credibility of the Ahl as-Sunnah Foundation of America. He makes this attempt throughout his letter. But with the Help of Allah, the writer’s deception is brought into light so that we may all see may all see his Intentions. Like we said before. Wa Allahu Alim.

6. Saying the Attributes of Allah and not Understanding them:

The writer is constantly begging the reader to refer to "the tapes". It is as though he is avoiding the discussion that was meant and instead of dealing with the intent, is accusing us of lying. For one can see his many fumbles of his previous claims in the letter. And we say, "Fine, listen to the tapes, then read the debate also." In the letter he says:

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[his response] " Again another lie is attributed to Abdur-Raheem, what can we say other than to repeat our request to the reader to obtain the tape and listen carefully and know for yourself what exactly does Abdur-Raheem say."

We say to this, " If the reader wants to obtain a copy of the tapes he should do so, after which he should read the response to it." And with this combination, we believe the reader will be Guided to a Way of Salvation. And he will shun this Doctrine that has been banned by our Great `Ulama throughout our Blessed history, until the words of the Prophet [saw] were proven true:

1. "The confusion [fitna] comes from there (and he pointed to the East =Najd in present-day Eastern Saudi Arabia)."

2. "A people that recite Qur'an will come out of the East, but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through the religion (of Islam) like the arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its course. Their sign is that they shave (their heads)."

3. "There will be in my Community a dissent and a faction, a people with excellent words and vile deeds.
They will read Qur'an, but their faith does not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. They will no more come back to the religion than the arrow will come back to its original course. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation. The one who kills them or is killed by them is blessed. They summon to the book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever kills them is closer to Allah than they. Their sign is that they shave (their heads)."

4. "A people will come out at the end of times, immature, foolish and corrupt. They will hold the discourse of the best of creation and recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will passes through religion the way an arrow passes through its quarry. If you find them, kill them, for verily whoever kills them will have his reward from Allah the Day of Judgment."

5."There will be people in my Community whose mark is that they shave (their heads). They will recite Qur'an, but it will not go past their throats. They will pass through religion the way an arrow passes through its target. They are the worst of human beings and the worst of all creation."

6. "The apex of disbelief is towards the East [Najd]. Pride and arrogance is found among the people of the horse and the camel [Bedouin Arabs]."

7. "Harshness and dryness of heart are in the East [Najd], and true belief is among the people of Hijaz."

8. "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen!" They said: "Ya Rasulallah, and our Najd!" He didn't reply. He blessed Syria and Yemen twice more. They asked him to bless Najd twice more but he didn't reply. The third time he said: "There [in Najd] are the earthquakes and the dissensions, and through it will dawn the epoch [or horn] of shaytan."

9. A version has, "The two epochs [or horns] of shaytan." Some scholars have said that the dual referred to Musaylima the Arch-liar and to Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab.

10. Some versions continue with the words: "And in it [Najd] is the consuming disease," i.e. death.

11. When `Ali killed the Khawarij, someone said: "Praise be to Allah Who has brought them down and relieved us from them." Ali replied: "Verily, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, some of them are still in the loins of men and they have not been born yet, and the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist."

Wa Allahu Alim.

7. The use of Ta`wiz:

By this time, one is fully aware of the type of style the writer is using. Instead of posting our position, he just states his as if there is no other position. For what he is trying to accomplish may be easy for the simple-minded, but the Beliefs of the Ahl as-Sunnah is enough to make them even the simple-minded notice what is there to believe. He can easily see the falsehood of the invitation of the neo-Salafi group, because the sayings of our Scholars are closer to his heart. And it is these Scholars who are the Protectors of the Deen from innovative and forbidden sects, like the Modern-day Salafi/Wahabi movement. One will notice that the writer is confusing matters of Hadith into classifying one type of Hadiths on all situations. Just like the example above about Bid`ah , in which the Scholars that were noted, gave the correct meaning and understanding of it. Realize this is one of the signs of the Khawaarij, in which they refer verses that was meant for the non-believers on the Believers. But in this case, they are using Hadiths. The writer says:

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Abdullaah ibn Masood (May Allah be pleased with him) quoted the Prophet (s) as saying, "Verily spells, talismans and charms are Shirk" [Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume-3, Hadeeth # 3874, Page # 1089 English Translation and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Dawood, Volume-2, PP 736-737, #3288 by Shaikh Al-Albaani]

Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir reported that a group of ten men approached Allah’s Messenger (s) to pledge their allegiance to him, he accepted the oath of allegiance from nine of them, but refused one, when they asked him why he had refused one of them, he replied: "Verily, he is wearing an amulet", the man who was wearing it put his hand into his cloth pulled it off and broke it, and then made the oath. The Prophet (s) then said, "Whoever wears an amulet has committed Shirk" [Collected by Ahmad and authenticated in Saheeh al-Jaami as-sagheer, Volume-2, Page-1092, Hadeeth # 6394 by Shaikh Al-Albaani]. From the above Ahadeeth it would be clear that the use of amulets has been strictly forbidden by the Prophet (s) consequently amulets or talismans represent a clear deviation from the prophetic way.>>

To this, we say this, " No, in this answer you give it is not sufficient to quote only a certain hadiths." For this is easy for one to believe it is shirk when he uses his proofs from the collections of the modern day Salafi Scholar: al-Albani. But al-Albani, who is known for missing many points and has caused much confusion and contradictions in his collections. Since the writer was aware of the hadiths we presented, we wonder why he defended Abdur-Raheem in this verdict. We cannot look into anyone’s heart, but from what we have seen we have to question the writer’s motives, because this discussion was clearly put to end in the former debate, yet the writer felt compelled to revive it. How can he revive it when ample proof was given? We will insha-Allah present a little of the same hadiths given in the last debate. And the reader will realize that this discussion should not have been brought up and the writer’s intention must be taken into account:

Allah says:

"And We reveal of the Qur'an what is a healing and a mercy for the believers, and the wrong-doers are not increased except in loss" (17:82)

It has been said that he who does not seek cure through the Qur'an, Allah does not cure him.

The scholars interpret that verse in two ways however: The first is that cure is for the hearts, by the removal of ignorance and doubt which hinder the understanding of miracles and matters pointing to Allah Almighty;

The second, that cure is for outward diseases, through the use of healing verses [ruqya] and seeking refuge and the like.

Qurtubi [whom Bro. Green referred to earlier as an excellent scholar] then lists instructions for making a kind of ruqya called nushra: various verses are recited over a clean container which is then filled with water; the water is then used for wudu' by someone who already has a valid wudu', and who also soaks his Head and limbs with it but does not use it for ghusl or istinja'; it may be drunk; he then prays two rak`as at the conclusion of which he asks for healing, and so for three days. Qurtubi cites Ibn `Abd al-Barr's statement whereby the Prophet's condemnation of nushra concerns whatever contradicts the Qur'an and Sunna, not what conforms to it.

Qurtubi continues: "The Prophet said: Cure for my Community is in but three verses of Allah's Book, a mouthful of honey, or cupping. He also said: Ruqya is allowed as long as there is no idolatry [shirk]; and if you can help your brother, help him.

Malik ibn Anas said: To hang writings of Allah's Names upon oneself is permitted for healing and blessing but not for protection against the evil eye [see Abu Hayyan, Tafsir al bahr al-muhit 6:74]. `Abd Allah ibn `Amr used to hang a protective invocation taught by the Prophet around the necks of his young children. (Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi - hasan)

The Prophet and the Companions hated the pagan kind of ruqya or talisman or necklace (tamima, qilada). Istishfa' or seeking blessing with Qur'an is not shirk, whether hung on oneself or not. Whoever cites the hadiths whereby the Prophet said: "Whoever hangs something (upon oneself), he is left to it for protection" (Tirmidhi, Nasa'i, and Ahmad, all with a weak chain), and that of Ibn Mas`ud's removal of his wife's pendant saying: "Ibn Mas`ud's family have no need of shirk" (al-Hakim and Ibn Hibban in his Sahih).... then this was all as a prohibition of what the people of Jahiliyya used to do in wearing amulets and pendants, thinking that they protected them against calamity, whereas only Allah protects, relieves, and tests, and He has no partner. So the Prophet forbade them what they used to do in their ignorance.

`A'isha said: "Whatever is worn after the descent of calamity is not an amulet (laysa min al-tama'im)."... As for seeking cure (istishfa') with the Qur'an whether worn on oneself or not then it is no shirk at all: the Prophet said: "Whoever hangs something (upon oneself), he is left to it for protection." Therefore who hangs Qur'an is certainly taken under Allah's protection, and He will not leave him to other than Him. Wearing a ruqya is accepted by: Ibn al-Musayyib, ad-Dahhak, Ja`far as-Sadiq, and Ibn Sirin."

We ask, "How did he miss the explanation of Imaam Nawawi in his in al-Majmu' sharh al-muhadhdhab?:

One may adduce as evidence for their permissibility [amulets (ta'wiz) containing protective or healing words (ruqya, hijab)] the hadith of `Amr ibn Shu`ayb, from his father, from his grandfather [`Amr ibn al-`As], that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to teach them for fearful situations the words: a`udhu bi kalimatillah al-tammat min ghadabihi wa sharri `ibadihi wa min hamazat al-shayatina wa an yahdurun = I seek refuge in Allah's perfect words from His wrath, from the evil of His servants, from the whispered insinuations of devils, and lest they come to me. `Abd Allah ibn `Amr [in Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud: `Abd Allah ibn `Umar] used to teach these words to those of his sons who had reached the age of reason, and used to write them and hang them upon those who had not.

The hadith is related in Abu Dawud, … Nawawi included it in his Adhkar…. Even Albani included the hadith in his Silsila sahiha (#264).

Awf ibn Malik said: We would use ruqya in Jahiliyya, so we said: "O Messenger of Allah, what do you say about this?" He replied: "Show me your protective words (a`ridu `alayya ruqakum), there is no harm in ruqya as long as it contains no shirk." [Muslim and Abu Dawud ]

Among the Companions it is established that `Abd Allah ibn `Amr used to make his small children wear ta`wiz and he certainly would not have done it if it consisted in shirk or led to it. This is confirmed by the Tabi`in who accepted the unconditional wearing of ta`wiz by both adults and children such as Sa`id ibn al-Musayyib, al-Dahhak, Ja`far al-Sadiq, and Ibn Sirin, and among those of later times Malik ibn Anas, as related by Qurtubi. Neither the latter nor Imam Nawawi objected to it, nor did the narrators of `Abd Allah ibn `Amr's report such as Tirmidhi, Nasa'i, Ahmad, and Abu Dawud.

Wa Allahu Alim.

8. Ziyaarah :

This chapter is claim by the writer is another example of his deception, that we have purposely mislead those who may not have read the debate. That if one would have read it before, he would know our intentions clearly were to reveal the proofs of the Permissibilities of Visiting the Graves of the Awlia. But the writer attempts to injects the fallacy of claiming that we meant that bro. Green is saying visiting graves in general is shirk. Then he takes upon himself to "prove" that visiting the graves of the Awlia is not allowed from a discussion that he claims did not take place in the original debate. With this he states that visiting the graves of ones loved one is permissible :

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Also the Prophet (s) said " I used to forbade (sic) you from visiting graves, but now you may visit them, for in visiting them there is a reminder of death " [Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume-2, Hadeeth # 3229, Page-919, and also in Saheeh Muslim, Volume-2, Hadith # 2130-1, Page # 463, English Translation, the wording quoted is that found in Sunan Abu Dawud]

The above ahadeeth show that visiting graves is recommended in Islaam in order to help the living reflect on the shortness of this life and the closeness of the next and that such a visit may benefit one from being reminded of his own death.>>

As if it was never discussed nor addressed, the writer states his that the Visitation of the Graves of the Awlia is shirk. And he does this by not quoting from a Hadith, like he did above, but he uses his own opinion [like bro. Green] without any proof what so ever. And one must know, that the rationalization that is used by the modern day ‘salafi’ is something to be rejected. With their ‘logical’ conclusions based on innappropriate use of verses and hadith they have lead many astray. They become their own Imams and Scholars to a point that they are not in need of any Scholar. He says:

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We must revert time and time again to the same suggestion to the reader throughout this letter: that it will be beneficial for him to obtain the original debate, something that the writer does not wish to suggest [?]. And we would like for the readers to know there is a reason that the writer only states his own opinion and avoids presenting our opinions on the matter. This is a form of censure in the most detested way. For this to be declared a fair debate, both sides should be presented so that the reader can decide for himself. Not in a way where the victors write the history . For now we will state our proofs, since he has already stated his. Most of it is from the original debate and again the reader will notice that this discussion should not have been re-opened. Like the above discussions. Like we said before:

"Some people think that if a duaa from one of the saliheen is answered while he is alive then he cannot help you if he is dead. As if the `aabid, sheikh or saint is the origin of the help. But it is always Allah who is the source of the baraka and never a human being. So to think that Allah can only give when that saint is alive and when he is dead, Allah does not give anymore, Is to say that the source is the person and not Allah in the first place! But in reality it is Allah who is giving help in both cases: life or death."

9. Tawassul Through the Prophet [saw]:

It is essential to understand that it is not, in reality, the Prophet or the Awlia who is the ultimate object of supplication, nor is he the one who grants it, but he is the best means of forwarding it to Allah and for its being granted by Allah. This is clear in the Prophet's prayer to Allah, in his words, "through Your Prophet and the Prophets before me" and "through those who ask" in the following two hadiths:

On the authority of Abu Sa`id al-Khudri, may Allah be pleased with him: He relates that the Messenger of Allah said: "The one who leaves his house for prayer and then says: "O Allah, I ask you by the right of those who ask you and I beseech you by the right of those who walk this path unto you that my going forth bespeak not of levity, pride nor vainglory nor done for the sake of repute. I have gone forth in the warding off your anger and for the seeking of your pleasure. I ask you, therefore, to grant me refuge from hell fire and to forgive me my sins. For no one forgive sins but yourself." Allah will accept for his sake and seventy thousand angels will seek his forgiveness."

It is related in Musnad Ahmad 3:21, Ibn Majah (Masajid), al-Mundhiri in al-Targhib 1:179, Ibn Khuzayma in his Sahih, Ibn al-Sani, and Abu Nu`aym. Ghazali mentions it in the Ihya and `Iraqi said: "It is hasan." Nawawi mentions only Ibn al-Sani's two chains in the Adhkar and says they are da`if (weak). However, Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani says it is hasan in al-Amali al-masriyya (#54) and also in the Takhrij of Nawawi's book, explaining that the latter neglected Abu Sa`eed al-Khudri's narration and omitted to mention Ibn Majah's.

The Prophet also said on the authority of Anas ibn Malik: "O Allah, grant forgiveness to my mother, Fatima Bint Asad, and make vast for her the place of her going in [i.e. her grave] by right of thy Prophet and that of those prophets who came before me" and so on until the end of the hadith.

10. Tawassul through the Awlia:

Imam Kawthari mentioned in his Maqalat mentions Shafi`i's tawassul through Abu Hanifa in the beginning of his Tarikh Baghdad with a sound chain.

Haytami also said in his book al-Sawa`iq al-muhriqa li ahl al-dalal wa al-zandaqa: "Imam Shafi`i made tawassul through the Family of the Prophet [Ahl al-bayt] when he said:

Al al-nabi dhari`ati wa hum ilayhi wasilati

arju bihim u`ta ghadan bi yadi al-yamini sahifati

The Family of the Prophet are my means and my

intermediary to him. Through them I hope to be

given my record with the right hand tomorrow.

al-Khatib relates that al-hafiz Abu Nu`aym said: considered it incumbent upon all Muslims to invoke Allah for Abu Hanifa in their prayer due to his preservation of the Prophet's Sunan and fiqh for them. This is explained by the fact that among Abu Hanifa's merits that are exclusive to him is his standing as the first in Islam to have compiled a book of fiqh.

Ibn al-Jawzi in his Sifat al-safwa lists examples of tabarruk and tawassul is recommended. Among them:

Abu Ayyub al-Ansari: "al-Waqidi said: It has reached us that the Eastern Romans visit his grave and seek rain through his intercession when they suffer from droughts." 1:243. Mujahid said: "People would uncover the space above his grave and it would rain."

Ma`ruf al-Karkhi (d. 200H): "His grave can be seen in Baghdad, and one seeks blessings with it. Al-hafiz Ibrahim al-Harbi (d. 285H) -- Imam Ahmad's companion -- used to say: "Ma`ruf's grave is proven medicine."" 2:214 Ibn al-Jawzi adds: "We ourselves go to Ibrahim al-Harbi's grave and seek blessings with it." 2:410

Al-Hafiz al-Dhahabi also relates Ibrahim al-Harbi's saying about Ma`ruf al-Karkhi: "Ma`ruf's grave is proven medicine." Siyar a`lam al-nubala' 9:343.

Abu al-Hasan al-Daraqutni said: "We used to seek blessings from Abu al-Fath al-Qawasi's grave." 2:471.

Abu al-Qasim al-Wa`iz: "His grave can be seen in Ahmad ibn Hanbal's cemetary and it is sought for blessings." [Notice on `Abd al-Samad ibn `Umar ibn Muhammad ibn Ishaq] 2:482

Al-Hafiz Abu al-Qasim Ibn `Asakir says in Musnad Abi `Uwana (1:430): "Abu `Abd Allah Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn `Umar al-Saffar said to me that the grave of Abu `Uwana in Isfarayin [near Naysabur] is a Place of visitation for the whole world (mazar al-`alam) and a Place for obtaining blessing for the entire creation (mutabarrak al-khalq)."

11. Conclusion :

Let it be known, that the writer of this book ‘As-Sunnah Foundation spreading Mischief through the Art…..’, whoever he may be, is guilty of the same crime that he imputes to us. He has stated the facts we presented in ways other than they were intended. Our clear intentions were to expose the contradictive statements made by Bro. Abdur-Raheem Green. The debate was addressed to him and to claim that we had engaged in the act of backbiting and slander him, is nothing but a effort to avoid the questions that were brought up. We ask that the writer who displays his ‘knowledge’ in such a flamboyant manner, to reveal himself and stop hiding behind the publications of Al-Hidaayah Foundation. If he truly represents them, as well as the Believers he is trying to inform, no great feat and no difficulty will be on him to identify himself. It would have given the writer some credibility if he had mentioned both sides if his intention is to debate us. It would have been more worthy for him to state why he did not address the proofs that were presented, but instead avoided them. When he claims that they do not go for debates we ask, "why was this letter written?"

This Deen is not explained by children or ‘masked’ writers. Rather, it is preserved with the `Ulama and preserving it should be left for them. And this leaves others to deal with their daily lives and leave the knowledge to the Scholars. For Imaam Al-Ghazali said (ra) `It is incumbent upon the Muslims to be occupied with his worship and his livelihood and to leave knowledge to the scholars. What he meant here is that the common Muslim should leave the knowledge to the Scholars regarding discussion and disputes , but not regarding seeking knowledge.

And we say that every Muslim falls into one of these 6 categories:

1. The Mujtahid of the principles
2. The Mujtahid of the Branches
3. The Mujtahid of the more weighty opinion
4. The Scholar
5. The Intermediate (Al-Mutawwsit) between the Scholar and the common person
and
6. The common person.

And many/most are of the last two categories and its get thinner as the stages increase, like air when one climbs a mountain. And the opinions that we have stressed in this letter, did not reach below the level of the Scholar and we kept our opinions to ourselves. And the Scholars that were mentioned, are the ones that those who wish to refer themselves as Salafi, claim to follow.

O People of Sri Lanka, protect your Religion Islam by following the Righteous Scholars. And leave those who are victims of their own desires about Fiqh and Aqidah. Follow the Scholars whom Allah [swt] has commanded for us to do. For if we neglect this command, we doom no one but ourselves. Allah says:

"Say are those who know and those who don’t know equal?"

" Allah raises those who believe and those who have been given knowledge whole degrees"

"Ask the people of Dhikr [the Scholars] if you don’t know"

and our Prophet [saw] had said:

" Whoever Allah [swt] wishes well, He gives knowledge of Religion"

"The superiority of a learned Muslim over a devotee is as my superiority over the least of you"

"He who calls others to guidance shall receive the like of the reward of those who follow him without diminishing their reward in the slightest……

O good people of Sri Lanka, follow those who are mentioned above for you will be saved from the misinformed masses and the self-imposed scholars. For the Prophet [saw] said , "The Scholars of my Nation are like the Prophets [saw] of Israel." What better guidance do we need, except those who know the Sunnah of our Prophet better than we? O people of Sri Lanka, don’t be fooled by fancy words and flashy speech. For the Prophet [saw] said, " Some speech is Enchantment." They impress you with their words and their supposedly superior knowledge, for the Prophet [saw] has mentioned them as though He said it yesterday. And it is that their Worship and their Fasting gives you a since of inferiority, but it is all show and their actions don’t go past their lips. For their appearance pleases you, but the smell of what is in their hearts is enough to kill. Beware of the evil scholars and their helpers who believe that they possess the knowledge for guidance:

Zayd ibn Hudayr reported that `Umar [ra] said, ‘Do you know what can destroy Islam?’ I said, ‘no.’ He said, ‘it is destroyed by the errors of the scholars, the argument of the hypocrites about the book and the opinions of the misguided ones.’ [ Mishkat Masabih]

Imaam Ghazalli said in his `Ihya:

"Allah says: The hypocrites will remain in the lowest abyss of Hell [ 4-145] as they refused to accept truth after they have acquired knowledge. " and also in this book he said, "Some learned men will suffer such intense agonies of torture that the inmates of Hell will seek refuge on seeing their tortures.

O People of Sri Lanka, may Allah Bless and bring back the Peace you once again, just as before the Fitna arrived. Ameen. Beware of the scholars who claim only to assist you by giving their ‘sincere’ guidance, but they will just come short of declaring Kufr if you believe something different then what they believe. Shun their `Aqeedah that has been banned throughout our Islamic heritage, and adhere to the beliefs of the Jamaa`ah, which you were all grasping to before the coming of the self-appointed "saviors". With holding onto the Jamaa`ah we will save ourselves and our families:

Surah al-Imran (3:103):

"And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah and be not divided."

Imam Sayf ad-Din al-Amidi (d. 631/1233; Rahimahullah) said in his al-Ihkam fi usul al-ahkam (The proficiency: on the fundamentals of legal rulings, pg. 295) with regard to the above Qur'anic verse: "Allah has forbidden separation, and disagreement with consensus ('Ijma') is separation." Hence, if Allah has forbidden separation then surely we must all unite

on the unanimously accepted `Aqeedah of our pious predecessors. And I have already quoted

Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (Rahimahullah) as saying: "This unanimity (in `aqeedah) was transmitted by the two great Imam's Abu'l Hasan al-Ashari and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi (Allah's mercy be upon them) and the scholars who followed their path."Ibn Kathir interprets the injunction, 'and do not be divided' to mean strict adherence to unity among Muslims. He reports on the authority of Abu Hurayrah (Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'God will be pleased with three acts from you, and wrathful with three others. He wishes that you worship Him alone without associating any thing with Him; that you hold fast all together to the rope of God and be not divided; and that you show loyalty to those whom God has set in authority.' (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, II, pp. 83-4). And other verses like:

1.Surah al-Imran (3:105): "And be not like those who separated and disputed after the clear proofs had come unto them: For such there is an awful doom."

2.Surah Al-An'am (6:159): "As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou has no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did."

3. Surah Al-Mu'minun (23:52-53): "And verily this Ummah of yours is a single Ummah and I am your Lord, so keep your duty unto Me. But they have broken their religion among them into sects, each rejoicing in its tenets."

4. Surah Al-Rum (30:32): "Those who split up their Religion, and become Sects, each sect exulting in its tenets."

5. Surah Al-Nisa (4:115): "He that disobeys the Apostle (Muhammad) after guidance has been made clear to him and follows a way other than that of the believers, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned, and expose him unto Hell - a hapless journey's end!"

And with the explanation of this, we will in closing mention a few hadiths. For it is clear that from the above verses that adhering to the Majority is our way of salvation and a protection from being lead astray. They are not of the Jamaa`ah because they are the ones who separated in their beliefs. And our Prophet [saw] had said: Abu Dawood (Rahimahullah) has quoted the well known Hadith concerning the division of the Muslim Ummah into seventy- three sects in his Sunan (3/4580, English ed.):

Abu Amir al- Hawdhani said, "Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) stood among us and said, 'Beware! The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood among us and said': 'Beware! The People of the Book before (you) were split up into 72 sects, and this community will be split up into 73, seventy-two of them will go to Hell and one of them will go to Paradise, and it is the majority group (Jama'ah).'

Another version of the above Hadith has been reported by Hafiz Ibn Kathir (Rahimahullah) in The Signs Before The Day of Judgement (pg. 14): "Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews splitinto 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).'

Shaykh Abdal Qadir al-Jilani (d. 561/1166; Rahimahullah) stated in Hadith in Ghunyat at-talibeen: "The Believer should adapt himself to the Sunnah and to the Jama'ah. The Sunnah is the way shown by Rasulullah (Peace be upon him). The Jama'ah is composed of the things done unanimously by the Sahaba who lived in the time of the four caliphs called Khulafa' ar-Rashidin (and others in their path). A Muslim must prevent the increase of the men of bid'ah and keep away from them, and should not greet them (as given in many Hadith on this issue). Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullah), the Imam of our Madhhab, said that greeting a man of bid'ah meant loving him since it had been declared in a Hadith, 'spread the greeting (salaam)! Love one another in this way!" He also said (pg. 143): "The title, Ahl as-Sunnah, which the innovators have expressed for themselves is not appropriate for them."

Ibn Taymiyya hit the right point when he described those who are the real Sunni's in his Aqeedat-il-Wasitiyyah (pg. 154):
"Their creed is the religion of Islam which was sent to the world by Allah through the Prophet (Peace be upon him). But the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'My Ummah will get divided into 73 sects and each one will go to Hell save one and that one is the Jama'at.' Also in one Hadith he said, 'They are those people who will follow this path which I and my Sahaba follow today.' Therefore they have caught hold of Islam unalloyed from every adulteration and these are the people of Ahl as-Sunnah Wa'l Jama'ah. This group includes the truthful, the martyrs and the virtuous; it includes the minarets of guidance, lamps in the darkness and owners of such superiorities and virtues who have been already mentioned. It includes the saints and also those Imams on whose guidance Muslims are unanimous. It is this successful group about which the Prophet (Peace be upon him) has said: 'One group from my Ummah will always remain dominant with truth; the opponents will never be able to harm its members or afflict them up to the Doomsday.'"

Wa Allahu Alim.

Peace and Blessing on the Prophet and his Family and His Companions.

Saying Allah, Allah

Many a time have I had the unfortunate opportunity to witness pseudo-salafis condemning the act of dhikr with the continuous repetition of Allah, Allah. They would shun such actions as bid'ah dalalah and claim that there is no basis for doing such a thing and that it carries absolutely no meaning. They would then suggest those doing it to instead say subahanallah or Allahu'Akbar. Below is a complete response on the issue by Sheikh Dr. GF Haddad:

Dhikr "ALLAH, ALLAH"
Question was asked:


Is it permissible to make dhikr by saying the name of Allah alone i.e. saying "Allah Allah Allah" without any accompaning phrase i.e. saying "subhaanallah, alhamdulillah,allahuakbar, la ilaha illallah." Is there consensus among ulama on this issue? If not, which prominent scholars have approved/disapproved of this?


Asta`idhu billah, Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim:



{Say: ALLAH. Then leave them to their playing} (6:91).

{Surely by mentioning ALLAH hearts become peaceful} (13:28).

From Abu Sa`id al-Khudri, the Prophet said, upon him peace:

"No people mention ALLAH but the angels surround them, mercy covers them, tranquility descends on them, and ALLAH mentions them to those who are with Him." (Muslim, at-Tirmidhi)

From Abu Hurayra, the Prophet said that Allah Most High said:

"I am as My servant thinks of Me and I sit with him when he remembers Me. If he mentions Me in himself I mention him in Myself. If he mentions Me in a gathering I mention him in a better gathering." (Al-Bukhari, Muslim, al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad)

The Prophet said, upon him blessings and peace:

"ALLAH, ALLAH! Fear Him with regard to my Companions! Do not make them targets after me! Whoever loves them loves them with his love for me; and whoever hates them hates them with his hatred for me. Whoever bears enmity for them, bears enmity for me; and whoever bears enmity for me, bears enmity for Allah. Whoever bears enmity for Allah is about to perish!"

Narrated from `Abd Allah ibn Mughaffal by al-Tirmidhi who said: gharîb (single-routed), by Ahmad with three good chains in his Musnad, al-Bukhari in his Tarikh, al-Bayhaqi in Shu`ab al-Iman, and others. Al-Suyuti declared it hasan in his Jami` al-Saghir (#1442).

Asma' bint `Umays the wife of Abu Bakr and mother of `Abd Allah ibn Ja`far ibn Abi Talib - Allah be well-pleased with all of them! - said:

"The Messenger of Allah - upon him blessings and peace - taught me words for me to say in times of duress: 'ALLAH, ALLAH is my Lord nor do I associate with him anything!'" (Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah with a good chain)

The Prophet upon him peace - said as narrated from Anas:

"The Hour will not rise until ALLAH, ALLAH is no longer said on the earth."

Through another chain from Anas, Allah be well-pleased with him:

"The Hour will not rise on anyone saying: ALLAH, ALLAH."

Muslim narrated both in his "Sahih," Book of Iman (belief), chapter 66 titled (by al-Nawawi): "The Disappearance of Belief at the End of Times."

Imam al-Nawawi said in his commentary on this chapter:

"Know that the narrations of this hadith are unanimous in the repetition of the name of Allah the Exalted for both versions and that is the way it is found in all the authoritative books." (Sharh Sahih Muslim, Dar al-Qalam, Beirut ed. vol. 1/2 p. 537)

Additional Remarks on the two narrations of ALLAH, ALLAH

1. Note that Imam al-Nawawi placed Anas's hadith under the heading of the disappearance of belief (iman) at the end of times although there is no mention of belief in the hadith. This shows that saying "ALLAH, ALLAH" stands for belief. Those who say it have belief, while those who don't, don't. Those who fight those who say it, are actually worse than those who merely lack belief and do not say "ALLAH, ALLAH."

2. Note that al-Nawawi highlights the authenticity of the repetition of the form to establish that the words "ALLAH, ALLAH" are a Sunna ma'thura (invocation inherited from the Prophet and the Companions) as it stands. Ibn Taymiyya's claim that the words must not be used alone but _obligatorily_ in contruct, e.g. with a vocative form ("Ya Allah") is therefore an innovation departing from the Sunna.

3. One who knows that the dhikr "ALLAH, ALLAH" has been mentioned by the Prophet himself, is not at liberty to muse whether it was used by the Companions or not in order to establish its basis. It suffices for its basis that the Prophet said it! Sami`na wa-Ata`na!

4. One who knows that "ALLAH, ALLAH" is a dhikr used by the Prophet, is not at liberty to object to similar forms of dhikr such as HU and HAYY and HAQQ. { "To Allah belong the most beautiful names, so call Him by them" } (7:180). Moreover, it is established that Bilal used to make the dhikr "AHAD, AHAD" while undergoing torture. As for the hadith of the ninety-nine Names, it does not limit the Names of Allah to only ninety-nine, as al-Nawawi made clear in his commentary of that hadith.

5. Note that the Siddiqi translation of Sahih Muslim, which is almost as flawed as the Khan translation of Sahih al-Bukhari, mistranslates the first as: "The Hour (Resurrection) would not come so long as Allah is supplicated in the world" and the second as "The Hour (Resurrection) would not come upon anyone so long as he supplicates Allah."

This is wrong as translation goes, although it is right as a commentary, since saying "ALLAH, ALLAH" is supplicating Him, as is all worship according to the hadith of the Prophet: "Supplication: that is what worship is." (Tirmidhi and others narrate it.) However, concerning accuracy in translation, the word form highlighted by al-Nawawi must be kept intact in any explanation of this hadith. It is not merely "supplicating Allah". It is saying: "ALLAH, ALLAH" according to the Prophet's own wording, upon him peace.

6. The fact that an alternate version exists in Musnad Ahmad with the words "LA ILAHA ILLALLAH" instead of "ALLAH, ALLAH" in no way cancels out the wording in Muslim. We do not leave a wording in Sahih Muslim for a wording in Musnad Ahmad nor do we make TA`TEEL and TA'WEEL of an established, explicit, and authentic Nass which, furthermore, confirms the letter of the Glorious Qur'an!

7. Imam al-Nawawi's daily devotion (Wird) uses the dhikr ALLAH, ALLAH!

And Allah knows best.

Shah Naqshband said: "This Path is built upon breath," meaning God-consciousness, death to the world, presence of heart, and the remembrance of ALLAH with every breath. May Allah sanctify his secret and benefit us with him.

"During the average human lifespan, a person will breathe 500 million times." Dr. Adel M.A. Abbas, _His Throne Was on Water_ (p. 81).

Sahl al-Tustari said - Allah be well-pleased with him:

"There are three types of eaters: one eats light and faith from the start of his food to the end; one eats nothing but food; and one eats garbage (sirjeen). The first one names ALLAH at the beginning, remembers Him with every bite, and thanks Him at the end; the second one names Him at the beginning and thanks Him at the end; the third one neither names Him nor thanks Him nor remembers Him."

Imam al-Ghazzali said in Ihya' `Ulum al-Din (3:19-20), Quarter on Muhlikaat, Book on Wonders of the Heart, Chapter on "The Difference between inspiration and learning," describing dhikr:

[Slightly amended from Orfan Rabbat's unpublished translation of al-Khani's al-Bahja al-Saniyya fi Aadaab al-Tariqat al-Naqshbandiyya]

"He secludes himself, doing no more than the obligatory worships (faraa'id) and their non-obligatory additions (rawaatib), does not distract his thoughts (while per- forming the following dhikr) by reciting the Qur'aan, nor by reflecting about Tafseer, books of Hadeeth or other subjects. On the contrary, he makes an effort that none but Allah Ta`aala crosses his mind.

"So after sitting in seclusion, he persists in continuously saying with the tongue "ALLAH, ALLAH" with presence of heart until he ends up in a state where he quits moving the tongue and sees as if the word is (still) running over his tongue. Then he perseveres until its traces disappear from the tongue yet he finds his heart continuing the Dhikr.

[This Dhikr of the heart is the Dhikr of the Naqshbandi Path. The explanations about dhikr that follow are identical to those of the Naqshbandi Path.]

"Then he perseveres with this (Dhikr of the heart) until are erased from the heart the image of the expression ('ALLAH'), its letters, and the form of the word, while the meaning of the word remains alone in his heart, present therein, as if established in the heart and not leaving it.

"He has the choice to reach this limit and the choice to preserve this state by repelling away waswasah (and all thoughts) but he has no choice (after that) in acquiring Allah's Mercy (which might come then): he became, as a result of what he did, exposed to the bestowing breezes of Allah's Mercy! So what remains is but to wait for what Mercy Allah may open up, as He opened it up upon the Prophets and Awliya' in this manner.

"Then, if his resolve (irada) is truthful and his determination pure, and if he perseveres well, such that his desires do not keep attracting him and his internal prattle about worldly bonds does not distract him, then the brilliances of truth will shine in his heart!

"This will initially be unstable like swift lightning. Then it will return, and may delay. If this returns, it may persist and it may also be short. And if it persists, it may be for a long while, and it may be for a short duration. Similar but different states may follow each other, or it may only be one type, and the levels therein of Allah's Awliya' (beloved ones) are countless just as their individual natures and moral features are countless.

"Thus this method goes back to - sole purification, cleansing and polishing on your part, - then followed only by readiness and waiting."

In his Hashiya, Ibn `Abidin said about group Dhikr, "Imam al-Ghazzali compared doing dhikr alone and the dhikr of a group to the adhan of someone alone and the adhan of a group. He said, 'As the voices of a group of mu'adhdhins reach farther than the voice of a single mu'adhdhin, so the dhikr of a group on one heart has more effect in lifting dense veils than the dhikr of a single person.'"

In his Hashiya, al-Tahtawi said: "Al-Sha`rawi stated that Scholars early and late agree that it is recommended to remember Allah Almighty in a group in the mosques and elsewhere without any objection unless their dhikr aloud disturbs someone sleeping, praying, or reciting the Qur'an, as is confirmed in the books of fiqh."

Yes, al-Nabulusi, al-Lacknawi, and al-Gangohi said there is disagreement in the Hanafi position over loud dhikr (al-dhikr al-jahri) in the mosque ranging from ja'iz - permissible - to makruh, to haram, and the correct position according to Imam al-Lacknawi is that it is ja'iz as stated in the Fatawa Khayriyya. This is also the position of al- Shurunbulali, Kayr al-Din al-Ramli, al-Nabulusi, Ibn `Abidin, Gangohi, and others, Allah have mercy on them.

In this respect the correct Hanafi position is in line with that of the other Three Schools wal-Hamdu lillah.

As for the mention that the Faqih and Sufi Shaykh, Sidi Ahmad al-Zarruq (d. 846) disapproved of the Hadra - the standing moving Dhikr practiced by Shadhilis - that, surely, was in his first phase, when he disapproved of many aspects of tasawwuf on the grounds of external knowledge. In his second and final phase there is no such disapproval. Ibn `Ajiba narrates from his Shuyukh's Shuyukh concerning Sidi al-Zarruq that in Tariqa he was an Imam, but not in Haqiqa and Dhawq - until very late in life: "He was not granted an opening (fat-h) until the last part of his life and almost parted with it empty- handed, hence his frequent objections to the people of Nisba and his hard stances and criticism of them" as stated in al- Talidi's al-Mutrib (p. 152) and "I heard Mawlay al-`Arabi al- Darqawi al-Hasani - radyAllahu `anh - say: Shaykh Zarruq among the people of external knowledge is something big, but among the people of internal knowledge he is something small... And among the Awliya those of the upper levels know those below them, not the reverse."

As for the mawquf report of Ibn Mas`ud that some adduce against the permissibility of collective dhikr in mosques, this report is inauthentic:


Amr ibn salmah said: We used to sit in front of Abdullah Ibn Masoud's house before the Fajr prayer, so that when he came out we would go with him to the Masjid. {one day} Abu Moosa al-Ash'aaree came and asked us: 'Did Abu Abdur Rahmaan (i.e. Ibn Masoud) leave yet? ' We answered: 'No.'

So Abu Moosa al-Ash'aaree sat with us waiting for him. When he came out, we all stood up. Abu Moosa told him: "Oh, Abu Abdur Rahmaan! I recently saw something in the Masjid which I deemed to be evil, but all praise is for Allah, I did see anything except good " Ibn Masoud then asked: "then What was it?"

Abu Moosa said: "You will see it if you stay alive. In the Masjid, I saw a group of people sitting in circles waiting for the Salââh. Each circle is led by a person. And every person in these circles carries small stones (pebbles).

The leader of a circle would say: "Say 'Allah-u Akbar' a hundred times" so they would repeat Allah-u Akbar a hundred times; then he says "Say 'Laa ilaaha illallaah', a hundred times" so they would say Laa ilaaha illallaah a hundred times; then he would say: "Say 'Subhaanallah', a hundred times", they will say Subhana Allah a hundred times.

Then Ibn Masoud said: "What did you tell them?"

He said: 'I didn't say anything, I waited to hear your opinion."

Abdullah Ibn Masoud said: "Could you not order them to count their evil deeds, and assured them of getting their rewards."

Then Abdullah Ibn Masoud went ahead and we accompanied him. As he approached one of the circles, he said: "What is this that you are doing?"

They said: "Oh! Abu Abdur Rahmaan, these are pebbles to count the number of times we say Allah-u Akbar, La ilaaha Illallah, and Subhaanallah."

He said: "Count your evil deeds, and I assure you that you are not going to lose anything of your rewards (Hasanat). Woe unto you, people of Muhammad, how quickly you go to destruction! Those are your Prophet's companions available, these are his clothes not worn out yet, and his pots are not broken yet. I swear by Whom my soul is in His Hands that you are either following a religion that is better than the Prophet's religion or you are opening a door of misguidance." They said: "We swear by Allah Almighty, oh, Abu Abdur Rahmaan, that we had no intention other than doing good deeds." He said: "So what? How many people wanted to do good deeds but never got to do them? The Prophet of Allah has told us about people who recited the Qur'ân with no effect on them other than the Qur'ân passing through their throats. [I.e. You are Khawarij]...


Al-Darimi in the Muqaddima of his Sunan, narrated from al-Hakam ibn al-Mubarak who narrates from `Amr ibn Salima al-Hamadani. This `Amr ibn Yahya ibn `Amr ibn Salama al- Hamadani is da`if. Ibn Ma`in saw him and said: "his narrations are worth nothing"; Ibn Kharrash: "he is not accepted; al-Dhahabi listed him among those who are weak and whose hadith is not retained in al-Du`afa' wal-Matrukin (p. 212 #3229), Mizan al-I`tidal (3:293), and al-Mughni fil-Du`afa' (2:491); and al-Haythami declared him weak (da`if) in Majma` al-Zawa'id, chapter entitled Bab al-`Ummal `ala al-Sadaqa.

Further, its authenticity was questioned by al-Suyuti in al-Hawi (2:31); al-Hifni in Fadl al-Tasbih wal-Tahlil as cited by al-Lacknawi, Sibahat al-Fikr (p. 25 and 42-43).

Further, it is belied by Imam Ahmad's narration in al-Zuhd from Abu Wa'il who said: "Those who claim that `Abd Allah [= Ibn Mas`ud] forbade dhikr [are wrong]: I never sat with him in any gathering except he made dhikr of Allah in it." Cited by al-Munawi in Fayd al-Qadir (1:457), al-Suyuti in Natijat al-Fikr fil-Jahri bil-Dhikr in al-Hawi, al-Nabulusi in Jam` al-Asrar (p. 66), al-Hifni in Fadl al-Tasbih wal- Tahlil as cited in al-Lacknawi, Sibahat al-Fikr (p. 25).

In addition, the Prophetic narrations affirming loud dhikr are sahih and innumerable, and definitely take precedence over a mawquf Companion-report even if we were hypothetically to consider it authentic.

Naysayers mention other pseudo-evidence against loud dhikr, all weak, such as the hadith "The best Dhikr is soft, and the best sustenance is what is sufficient," "One silent du`a is seventy times more superior than one loud du`a," and other da`if and maqtu` reports for which we are supposed to leave Qur'an and Sahih evidence and the understanding of the Imams!

A final note:

"It is better for one to mention Allah once, pray one prayer, or recite one Sura or the like of that with the state of the Shari`a of Muhammad SallAllahu `alayhi wa-Alihi wa-Sallam than to do it a thousand times with the blameworthy state which is intense thirst for this world and devotion to idle talk, and absorption in misguidance. Allah save us!" Shaykh `Arabi al-Darqawi.

Our Master, the light of our eyes, the treasure of this world, Mawlana al-Shaykh Nazim said in the talks titled FROM DUNYA TO MAWLA:

"First condition for protection is to believe in God, and second to continue worshipping. Run and put your prayer-carpet, pray, make Dhikr and glorify the Lord. No protection now except that. Even whole armies can't protect one single person.

"Angels glorify without tiring, and they are fed by it. The power of one angel is enough to carry away the power of whole mankind; that special power may stop everything in a moment. One spiritual person may carry away all nuclear weapons in one moment.

"We don't fear a nuclear war. It is not going to be as they like and think, because the control is in the hands of a wali. The world is under heavenly control. On every bomb there is a jinn. People think they are controlling, but they control nothing. There are the 5 Qutubs, and they control.

"Allah likes and orders to be glorified. It gives power and peace to you. Try to say more: La ilaha ill'Allah, say: ALLAH, ALLAH, make Salawat [invocations of blessings on the Prophet].

"Try to give more time of your day to reach to spiritual power. Every worshipping and Dhikr helps, giving you more love for the Lord, and real life comes through love. Saints say: people without love are like dead ones walking on earth.

"Love is life, light and our perfection. As much as your love is growing, you live more enjoyful, happy. The main purpose of tariqats is to train people to make Dhikr, so that they may take support and power from it.

"Time of Qiyama approaching now. Hundreds of signs appeared, and one of them is that people leave glorification of the Lord. And sufferings rain on them. Then they ask treatment by drugs.

"All illnesses go away by glorifying the Lord. Through your love for the Lord you will reach health, pleasure and happiness here and hereafter."

Was-Salam.

Hajj Gibril
GF Haddad


[14 May 2003]

Are dhikr gatherings bid'ah?

The speudo-salafis aka wahabis love shunning assemblies of dhikr as bid'ah...May Allah s.w.t. protect us from such ignorant blasphemies.

Gatherings of Collective, Loud Dhikr

The hadith qudsi already quoted, "Those that remember Me in a gathering," makes gatherings of collective, loud dhikr the gateway to realizing Allah's promise "Remember Me, and I shall remember you." It is no wonder that such gatherings receive the highest praise and blessing from Allah and His Prophet, Peace be upon him, according to many excellent and authentic hadiths.

In Bukhari and Muslim: The Prophet said that Allah has angels roaming the roads to find the people of dhikr, i.e. those who say La Ilaha Illallah and similar expressions, and when they find a group of people (qawm) reciting dhikr, they call each other and encompass them in layers until the first heaven -- the location of which is in Allah's knowledge. (This is to say, an unlimited number of angels are going to be over that group. He didn't say: "when they find one person." Therefore it is a must to be in a group to get this particular reward.) Allah asks His angels, and He knows already (but he asks in order to assure it and make it understandable for us) "What are my servants saying?" (He did not say "servant," but `ibadi, "servants" in the plural.) The angels say: "They are praising You (tasbih) and magnifying Your Name (takbir) and glorifying You (tahmid), and giving You the best Attributes (tamjid)." (Can you say that all this is a lecture or a study group? Can you say that this is silent? Rather, this is saying "Alhamdulillah" and all kinds of other dhikr.) Allah says: "Have they seen Me?" The angels answer: "O our Lord! They did not see You." He says: "(They are praising Me without seeing Me,) what if they see Me!" The angels answer: "O our Lord, if they saw You, they are going to do more and more worship, more and more tasbih, more and more takbir, more and more tamjid!" He says: "What are they asking?" Angels say: "They are asking Your Paradise!" He says: "Did they see Paradise?" They say: "O our Lord, no, they have not seen it." He says: "And how will they be if they see it?" They say: "If they see Paradise, they are going to be more attached and attracted to it!" He says: "What are they fearing and running away from?" (When we are saying, "Ya Ghaffar (O Forgiver), Ya Sattar (O Concealer)," it means that we are fearing Him because of our sins. We are asking Him to hide our sins and forgive us.) They say: "They are fearing and running away from hellfire." He says: "And have they seen hellfire?" They say: "O our Lord, no, they did not see hellfire." He says: "And how will they be if they see fire and hell?" They say: "If they see your fire, they are going to be running from it more and more, and be even more afraid of it." (Now listen to this carefully:) And Allah says: "I am making you witness (and does Allah need witnesses? He needs no witness since He said: "Allah is sufficient as witness." Why make the angels witnesses? Does Allah change His word? "Making you witness" here means, "Assuring you") that I have forgiven them." (Why has Allah forgiven them? Because, as the beginning of the hadith states, they are a group of people reciting the Names of Allah and remembering Him with His dhikr.) One of the angels says: "O my Lord, someone was there who did not belong to that group, but came for some other need." (That person came for some other purpose than dhikr, to ask someone for something.) Allah says: "Those are such a group that anyone who sits with them -- no matter for what reason -- that person will also have his sins forgiven."

The late Imam Ahmad Mashhur al-Haddad (d. 1416/1995) said in his book Miftah al-janna (cf. transl. Mostafa Badawi, Key to the Garden, Quilliam Press p. 107-108):

This hadith indicates what merit lies in gathering for dhikr, and in everyone present doing it aloud and in unison, because of the phrases: "They are invoking You" in the plural, and "They are the people who sit," meaning those who assemble for remembrance and do it in unison, something which can only be done aloud, since someone whose dhikr is silent has no need to seek out a session in someone else's company.

This is further indicated by the hadith qudsi which runs: "Allah says: I am to my servant as he expects of Me, I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers Me in his heart, I remember him to Myself, and if he remembers me in an assembly, I mention him in an assembly better than his..." (Bukhari and Muslim) Thus, silent dhikr is differentiated fron dhikr said outloud by His saying: "remembers Me within himself," meaning: "silently," and "in an assembly," meaning "aloud."

Dhikr in a gathering can only be done aloud and in unison. The above hadith thus constitutes proof that dhikr done outloud in a gathering is an exalted kind of dhikr which is mentioned at the Highest Assembly (al-mala' al-a`la) by our Majestic Lord and the angels who are near to Him, "who extol Him night and day, and never tire" (21:20).

The affinity is clearly evident between those who do dhikr in the transcendent world, who have been created with an inherently obedient and remembering nature, namely the angels, and those who do dhikr in the dense world, whose natures contain lassitude and distraction; namely, human beings. The reward of the latter for their dhikr is that they be elevated to a rank similar to that of the Highest Assembly, which is sufficient honor and favor for anyone.

Allah has bestowed a special distinction upon those who remember Him. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "The single-hearted (al-mufarridun) have surpassed all." They asked, "Who are these single-hearted people, O Prophet of Allah?" He replied, "Those men and women who remember Allah unceasingly." (Muslim)

The mountain has overtaken the people because the mountain is reciting dhikr also. Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya in Madarij al-salikin explains that the term mufarridun has two meanings here: either the muwahidun, the people engaged in tawhid who declare Allah's Oneness as a group (i.e. not necessarily alone), or those whom he calls ahad furada, the same people as (single) individuals sitting alone (in isolation). From this example it is evident that in the explanation of Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya, sittings of dhikr can be in a group, and can be all alone. In another explanation of mufarridun also cited by Ibn Qayyim, the meaning is ‘those that tremble from reciting dhikrullah, entranced with it perpetually, not caring what people say or do about them.' This is because the Prophet said: udhkur Allaha hatta yaqulu majnun "Remember / mention Allah as much as you want, until people say that you are crazy and foolish" (Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih); that is: do not care about them!

The mufarridun are the people who are really alive. Abu Musa reported, "The likeness of the one who remembers his Lord and the one who does not remember Him is like that of a living to a dead person." (Bukhari)

Ibn `Umar reported that the Prophet said: "When you pass by the gardens of Paradise, avail yourselves of them." The Companions asked: "What are the gardens of Paradise, O Messenger of Allah?" He replied: "The circles of dhikr. There are roaming angels of Allah who go about looking for the circles of dhikr, and when they find them they surround them closely." Tirmidhi narrated it (hasan gharib) and Ahmad.

Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri and Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet, peace by upon him, said, "When any group of men remember Allah, angels surround them and mercy covers them, tranquility descends upon them, and Allah mentions them to those who are with Him." Narrated by Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Majah, and Bayhaqi.

Muslim, Ahmad, and Tirmidhi narrate from Mu`awiya that the Prophet went out to a circle of his Companions and asked: "What made you sit here?" They said: "We are sitting here in order to remember / mention Allah (nadhkurullaha) and to glorify Him (wa nahmaduhu) because He guided us to the path of Islam and he conferred favours upon us." Thereupon he adjured them by Allah and asked if that was the only purpose of their sitting there. They said: "By Allah, we are sitting here for this purpose only." At this the Prophet said: "I am not asking you to take an oath because of any misapprehension against you, but only because Gabriel came to me and informed me that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, was telling the angels that He is proud of you!" Note that the hadith stated jalasna -- we sat -- in the plural, not singular. It referred to an association of people in a group, not one person.

Shahr ibn Hawshab relates that one day Abu al-Darda' entered the Masjid of Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem) and saw people gathered around their admonisher (mudhakkir) who was reminding them, and they were raising their voices, weeping, and maiking invocations. Abu al-Darda' said: "My father's life and my mother's be sacrificed for those who moan over their state before the Day of Moaning!" Then he said: "O Ibn Hawshab, let us hurry and sit with those people. I heard the Prophet say: If you see the groves of Paradise, graze in them, and we said: O Messenger of Allah, what are the groves of Paradise? He said: The circles of remembrance, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, no people gather for the remembrance of Allah Almighty except the angels surround them closely, and mercy covers them, and Allah mentions them in His presence, and when they desire to get up and leave, a herald calls them saying: Rise forgiven, your evil deeds have been changed into good deeds!" Then Abu al-Darda' made towards them and sat with them eagerly. The hafiz Ibn al-Jawzi relates it with his chain of transmission in the chapter entitled: "Mention of those of the elite who used to attend the gatherings of story-tellers" of his book al-Qussas wa al-mudhakkirin (The Story-tellers and the Admonishers) ed. Muhammad Basyuni Zaghlul (Beirut: dar al-kutub al-`ilmiyya, 1406/1986) p. 31.

The above shows evidence for the permissibility of loud dhikr, group dhikr, and the understanding of dhikr as including admonishment and the recounting of stories that benefit the soul. And Allah knows best.

http://www.sunnah.org/ibadaat/dhikr.htm

Loud Dhikr

How many times have you heard wahabis aka pseudo-salafis claiming that loud dhikr is bid'ah or that they would react negatively by saying a'udhubillah for instance when hearing loud dhikr? Personally, i've had the unfortunate chance of coming across such delusions many a time.


The floowing is a response to this issue:

1.
Loudness in dhikr
The Prophet praised a man who was awwah -- literally: one who says ah, ah! -- that is: loud in his dhikr, even when others censured him. Ahmad narrated with a good chain in his Musnad (4:159) from `Uqba ibn `Amir: "The Prophet said of a man named Dhu al-bijadayn: innahu awwah, He is a man who says ah a lot. This is because he was a man abundant in his dhikr of Allah in Qur'an-recitation, and he would raise his voice high when supplicating."

Allah said of the Prophet Ibrahim: "Verily, Ibrahim is awwah and halim" (9:114, 11:75), that is, according to Tafsir al-jalalayn: "Crying out and suffering much, out of fear and dread of his Lord." [halim = merciful, gentle.] The Prophet prayed to be awwah in the following invocation: rabbi ij`alni ilayka awwahan, "O Allah, make me one who often cries out ah to you." Narrated by Tirmidhi (book of da`awat #102, hasan sahih), Ibn Majah (Du`a' #2), and Ahmad (1:227) with a strong chain [Yahya ibn Sa`id al-Qattan < Sufyan al-Thawri < Shu`ba < `Amr ibn Murra < `Abd Allah ibn al-Harith < Taliq ibn Qays al-Hanafi < Ibn `Abbas] with the following wording:

The Prophet used to supplicate thus: "O my Lord! help me and do not cause me to face difficulty; grant me victory and do not grant anyone victory over me; devise for me and not against me; guide me and facilitate guidance for me; make me overcome whoever rebels against me; O my Lord! make me abundantly thankful to You (shakkaran laka), abundantly mindful of You (dhakkaran laka), abundantly devoted to You (rahhaban laka), perfectly obedient to You (mitwa`an ilayks), lowly and humble before You (mukhbitan laka), always crying out and turning back to You (awwahan muniban)!...."

http://www.sunnah.org/ibadaat/dhikr.htm

2.
Loud Dhikr
Bukhari narrated that Abu Huraira (r) reported that the Prophet (s) said, "If My servant mentions Me in himself, I will mention him in Myself. If he mentions Me in a group, I will mention him in a group in My presence." We understand from this hadith that to mention Allah in a group indicates loud dhikr. Some scholars determined from this that using loud dhikr is permitted.

Bukhari narrated in his book of hadith, that Ibn 'Abbas (r) said, "In the time of the Prophet (s) the people used to raise their voices in Dhikr."

Bukhari narrated in his book of hadith, that Abu Ma'bad (r), the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas (r), said: "Ibn 'Abbas told me, 'In the lifetime of the Prophet (s), it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the obligatory congregational prayers.'" Ibn 'Abbas (r) continued, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would know that the congregational prayer had ended."

Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi related that as-Sa'ib (r) preported that the Prophet (s) said, "Jibril came to me and ordered me to order my Companions to raise their voices in takbir."

It is narrated by Bukhari and Muslim and mentioned by Jalaluddin as-Suyuti, from other collections, that 'Ali bin Abi Talib (r) said, "I asked the Prophet (s) one time, 'O Messenger of Allah, guide me to the shortest way to Allah's Presence, and the easiest way to worship, and the best way for Allah, Almighty and Exalted. The Prophet (s) said, 'O 'Ali, you have to be continuously making Dhikrullah, silently and aloud.' I replied, 'O Prophet (s), all human beings are making dhikr. Give me something special.' The Prophet (s) said, 'O 'Ali, the best of what I, and all prophets before me, said is, la ilaha illallah. If all the heavens and earth were placed on one side of the balance and la ilaha illallah were placed in the other, la ilaha illallah would be heavier. Judgment Day will never come as long as there are people on this earth saying la ilaha illallah.' Then I said, 'How should I recite.' The Prophet (s) said, 'Close your eyes and listen to me reciting la ilaha ill-Allah three times. Then you say it three times and I will listen to you.' Then the Prophet (s) said it and I repeated it in a loud voice."

In the narration of Imam Ahmad and Tabarani this hadith is continued, describing how the Prophet taught his Companions the dhikr. "'Ibada bin Samit said that the Prophet (s) said, 'Is there any stranger among you?' And we said, 'No, Ya Rasul-Allah.' He said, 'Close the door.' Then he said, 'Raise your hand and repeat after me La ilaha illallah' We raised our hand and said, la ilaha illallah. Then the Prophet (s) said, 'Praise be to Allah that He sent me to this world with this kalimah, and He ordered me with it, and He promised me the Paradise with it, and He never changes His Promise.' Then the Prophet (s) said, 'Be happy! Allah has forgiven you.'"

Jalaladin as-Suyuti mentioned in an article called "Natijat al-Fikr fi Jahri-dh-Dhikr," the Benefits of Loud Dhikr, twenty-five authentic hadiths which mention doing loud dhikr.

Thursday, June 7, 2007

Sayed_Al_Farsi of Paltalk AT IT AGAIN !

CAUTION!!! Foul language is used.

Paltalk: Assalamualaikum Warahmatullah to all those who follow righteousness and Greetings to all. Ahlan Wa Sahlan ikhwan wa akhawat fil Islam. Sufism aka TASAWWUF is not a sect. All views are welcome so long as you do not infringe upon the rules on the banner.
terminator01: take the mic!
terminator01: lol i told u!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: brb
terminator01: tyt
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: 2 sisters and 1 brother??????
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: THIS IS BID'AHHH
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: BID'AHHHHH
Shugriya3: onomat
terminator01: whats bidah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: loL
Shugriya3: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: brb
terminator01: lol
terminator01: ono i got full marks for the tesrtt lol
Shugriya3: hey u can marry us we are our wife on line
Shugriya3: what bidaah
Shugriya3: allah allowed u 4
terminator01: but the teacher told me i never study ienough
Shugriya3: two more u need
terminator01: lol
Shugriya3: dam that teacher why
terminator01: haha after all that teacher is my mom lol
Shugriya3: ooop's lolol
Shugriya3: really
Shugriya3: lolol
terminator01: come i recite quraan for here loL
terminator01: can i?
terminator01: lol
Shugriya3: i see i though u were talking about school
terminator01: oh lol nah school is on stirkie till tues day lol
terminator01: they need wages!
terminator01: welcome justice
terminator01: dead here
terminator01: its winter here!
terminator01: welcome dragon
terminator01: u hate me
Shugriya3: lol yeah right
Shugriya3: lolol
Dragon With Rare Diamond: termintor
Shugriya3: my stomach is hanging low
terminator01: i will ounce u out lol
terminator01: elo dear!
scally_chris: lmao
terminator01: haha!
scally_chris: hahaha
scally_chris: mcdonalds
terminator01: oil food
scally_chris: yes
terminator01: brb
Shugriya3: what
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: what
Shugriya3: how
terminator01: last prophet?
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: æ Úáíßã ÇáÓáÇã
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: ãÍãÏ
scally_chris: lol
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: ååååå
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: oh
Last_Prophet_Muhammed: ok
scally_chris: yes sis
scally_chris: i love em
scally_chris: used to watch em all the time
scally_chris: akira
scally_chris: fist of the north star
scally_chris: veryt violent things tho
Shugriya3: bleach
scally_chris: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Assalamu'alaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i'm gonna play somethin
scally_chris: wsalam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i think sis shugriya might like it
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: hey bro chros
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: chris*
scally_chris: hey onomat
scally_chris: i been feeling really down
scally_chris: but i feel ok today
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: aww chris
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: May Allah make it easy for you
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what's that sis shugriya?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: lol
Last_Prophet_Muhammed:
terminator01: heehe!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what the????!?!?!?!
Shugriya3: cartoons
Shugriya3: mega
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: wha
scally_chris: manga
Shugriya3: bleach
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
scally_chris: yeah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie:
Paltalk: Shugriya3 reddotted by: terminator01
Paltalk: Shugriya3 unreddotted by: terminator01
Last_Prophet_Muhammed:
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: loL
terminator01: lol
Shugriya3: hahaha
terminator01: walaykom salaam
Shugriya3: grrrrrrrrrr onomat
Shugriya3: onomat why man?
Shugriya3: lolol
terminator01: haha!
Shugriya3: haha
scally_chris: mANGA IS GOOD FOR THE SOUL
terminator01: i will dot u to
Shugriya3: what is this
scally_chris: lol
terminator01: oh
terminator01: hahaha
Shugriya3: okay i see
scally_chris: isnt it shugriya??
Shugriya3: yeaah get u out of thios world yeah
Last_Prophet_Muhammed:
Shugriya3: last why u crying
Sayed_Al_Farsi: howdie partners
terminator01: sayed
Shugriya3: sayed say salam
terminator01: hey!
Last_Prophet_Muhammed:
scally_chris: howdy bro sayed
Shugriya3: oh my days what muslim are u
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ..did you like that Debate with h-adam yeserday
terminator01: i am a human muslim!
terminator01: haha
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Assalamu'alaikum Sayed
Shugriya3: haha
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: there was no debate Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you were lectured to
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ...thank you
Shugriya3: he is dreaming
Sayed_Al_Farsi: there wasnt ?
Last_Prophet_Muhammed:
Sayed_Al_Farsi: wow
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: but i didn't like the topic which you brought up
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: and how the other brother handled it
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the subject
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: if you have
Paltalk: Upgrade Now -- Get unlimited video all the time!
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: even the slightest clue
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: about ur religion
Shugriya3: lolol
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam said I go to brothels and have sex with prostitutes
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: should not be asked
Sayed_Al_Farsi: masha'Allah what an Aleem
Shugriya3: what
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: in such mannerisms
Shugriya3: oh my days
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: the issue should not be debated upon
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: especially not among lay persons
terminator01: why u talking of my dadwith out his presence????
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... ya , wallahi, he said that yesterday to me , that I go to brothels and have sex with prostitutes
Shugriya3: sayed what may allah punish for what u said about h- adam
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Auzibillah
terminator01: why u talking of my dadwith out his presence????
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... you think Iam lying , wallahi he said that
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: please do not bring fitnah to this room
terminator01: i am going to invite him hhere
Sayed_Al_Farsi: go for it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: invite him
Shugriya3: sayed proof
Shugriya3: subhana-allah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... me saying Wallahi is not enough evidence ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: invite him ..and ask him
terminator01: Welcome [] ° ¨ ° [] h-adam [] ° ¨ ° []To Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
Shugriya3: no because i know h-adam
terminator01: nce is wipping away
Shugriya3: oh my days

***COMMENTARY**
- h-adam enters the room by invitation of terminator01, his daughter.

NOTE : h-adam starts speaking on the mic until the end.

Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... ya , wallahi, he said that yesterday to me , that I go to brothels and have sex with prostitutes
anas_qayyim: 2221112222
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: h-adam
anas_qayyim: 1gv now
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: said this about you
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: just now
Shugriya3: 222
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... ya , wallahi, he said that yesterday to me , that I go to brothels and have sex with prostitutes
Dragon With Rare Diamond: lol
scally_chris: shugriya i lost half a stone
Dragon With Rare Diamond: lol
Dragon With Rare Diamond: lol
Shugriya3: 11
anas_qayyim: 121121212121
scally_chris: 111
Shugriya3: 1111
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: 1111
h-adam: la3natullaahi 3alal kathibeen
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: hal hua kadhab h-adam?
Shugriya3: sayed i don't believe never
terminator01: did he say u?
Shugriya3: wow
Sayed_Al_Farsi: looool
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Shugriya3: subahan-allah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam .. We debated yesterday on the Arsh of Allah(swt)
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you are a huge fitnah maker
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ... I had a different nick
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you debated with Kalabadhi
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not h-adam
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ...... A brother debated you yesterday on Arsh of Allah(swt) , did you say he goes to Brothels or not ???????????????
terminator01: Welcome -•~¹'°¨°'¹i| AL-SOMALI 3 |i¹'°¨°'¹~•- to Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed....
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ...you did not say it to the brother yesterday ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: why are you not clarifying ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you were talking to Kalabadhi yesterday
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: not h-adam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: h-adam was mostly on text
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ... I was talking to him , kala came on later briefly
h-adam: 110 karlienpark zinniaville rustenburg 0302 nort west south africa
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you really need to stop being such a big fitnah maker Sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ...... A brother debated you yesterday on Arsh of Allah(swt) , did you say he goes to Brothels or not ???????????????
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: briefly Sayed?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Kalabadhi spoke to you more than half an hour !
terminator01: Welcome «------•}I|[ khalil_13_2 ]|I{•------» to Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: your memory is laughable Sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ... you never said "brothels" and "prostitutes" ?
khalil_13_2: Asalaam Alaikum
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: me??
Dragon With Rare Diamond: ws
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ... That was me yesterday on text
Shugriya3: ws
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: i was not even in the discussion?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ... did you speak of Prostitutes ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ... you never said "brothels" and "prostitutes" ?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: what are you on Sayed?
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: are you on Crack?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono ...its called typo dude lol
Shugriya3: oh my days
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: when you make such a blunderin typo
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: rectify it
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: to avoid confusion Sayed
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ...why are you not answering ?

**COMMENTARY**
-h-adam already swore by Allah that if he did utter such words, may Allah's curse be upon me and kill me right now.


Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: stop being a confusion maker
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ...... A brother debated you yesterday on Arsh of Allah(swt) , did you not speak of brothels and prostitutes to the brother ???????????????
Shugriya3: sayed MAY ALLAH PUNISH U FOR WHAT U SAID INSHA-ALLAH AGAINIST A MULSIM LEARN BROTHER
ALLAHS-72VIRGINS: w/s ALL
Sayed_Al_Farsi: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie has bounced ALLAHS-72VIRGINS from the chat room
Shugriya3: MAY ALLAH MAKE U PAY INSHA-ALLAH AMEEN
Sayed_Al_Farsi: ridiculous
scally_chris: sayed u said before h adam said it to u
terminator01: Welcome «------•}I|[ Almojannad ]|I{•------» to Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
Sayed_Al_Farsi: scally ... he did , wallahi
Sayed_Al_Farsi: I swear by Allah(swt)
Shugriya3: H- ADAM
scally_chris: i never heard anything
Shugriya3: DON'T WORRY
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: several people were in the room in fact
Shugriya3: ME I WAS HERE
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam .. pass the mic
Shugriya3: YEAH
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: eww
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: london brother
Shugriya3: OH MY DAYS
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: is a foul fitnah maker
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: a liar on the Shari'ah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Auzibillah
Sayed_Al_Farsi: stop back biting the brother please
Shugriya3: OH MY DAYS
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Ono
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed.....u were backbiting...
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: we are warning of someone
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ... pass the mic
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: that isn't backbiting
terminator01: whenu were back bitting my father it was nothing ?
Shugriya3: SAYED U NEVER SAID SALAAM AND U COME AND START LYING ABOUT H- ADAM
Shugriya3: HOW DARE U
khalil_13_2: terminator: who is your father?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: why is he changing the topic ?
Shugriya3: SAYED U CALL UR SELF A MUSLIM
terminator01: he is on the mic!
Shugriya3: EXPOSE LIES OF UR BROTHERS IN ISLAM
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam ... pass the mic
Shugriya3: IS THAT WHAT THE PROPHET DID
khalil_13_2: termintaor: is sheaikh adam-h your father?
Shugriya3: IS THAT WHAT ABDUL WAHABI TEACHES
terminator01: yes khalil
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Shugriya ... you are little girl , iam putting you on ignore

**COMMENTARY**
- This is an example of the arrogance of wahabism


khalil_13_2: terminator: ok
Sayed_Al_Farsi: harami ?
Sayed_Al_Farsi: wow
Sayed_Al_Farsi: now he is calling people Bastards

**COMMENTARY**
- This bloody liar has a perverted mind who's looking for trouble. h-adam was calling him harami in the arabic sense of the word, meaning one who opposes the Shari'ah.


Sayed_Al_Farsi: masha'Allah
khalil_13_2: Sayed: drop it
Sayed_Al_Farsi: what an Aleem
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: again
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: a LIAR
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: subahanallah
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: Sayed
terminator01: lol
Onomat Al-Sufi Al-Shafie: you are the devil
Shugriya3: LIER MY TONGUE FALL OUT
Sayed_Al_Farsi: h-adam .. you know Harami means Bastard in Pakistani/Afghan culture
terminator01: Welcome chelsea rose To Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
Shugriya3: MAY8*
Sayed_Al_Farsi: i have proved my point
Sayed_Al_Farsi: thank you
terminator01: Welcome «------•}I|[ kiwi269 ]|I{•------» to Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam

khalil_13_2: I didnt know Harami means Bastard

khalil_13_2: Harami does not mean Bastard

Sayed_Al_Farsi: khalil ..ya, in Pakstani/Afghani Culture
Sayed_Al_Farsi: Harami/Haramzada = Bastard Child
terminator01: Welcome «›-¤•.„.•´ Shugriya3 `•.„.•¤¬‹» to Science of Tasawwuf is the Heart of Islam
khalil_13_2: adam: thats what I thought.. where did bastard come from
Shugriya3: Shugriya3 has bounced Sayed_Al_Farsi from the chat room

khalil_13_2: Harami does not mean Bastard
anas_qayyim: recorded
scally_chris: he got bounced
scally_chris: was he trying to wind u up

Alhamdulillahirabbil 'alameen. Allah s.w.t. exposes the liars.